Amazon needs to get their act together

[volwrath]

Since they are the dominant force in the US ebook market, i feel that they need to fix a few things. Quite simply they need to come out with a mobi v.2 that fixes all the problems with mobi. The way that mobi handles the TOC / chapter markers is a pain. The way that amazon handles page numbers is insane. If I side load a mobi file (via calibre) it shows page numbers. If I email a mobi via @kindle the page numbers are not there. I understand the rationale for why this is, but still find it aggravating. Mobi is so 1999.

If amazon is going to stay the dominant format, I think they need to work on an updated mobi that takes many attributes from ePub, and increases the versatility of mobi. Or I could be wrong and its a cd vs DVD_audio argument.

But amazon if you do change, please leave the drm alone

[DiapDealer]

I agree... They need to completely overhaul the thinking that got them to the top of the heap in the first place. If they don't make some radical, dangerous and ill-thought-out changes-for-change's sake very soon... they're liable to lose everything.

[bhartman36]

I don't know if they "need" to change, but I find the page number thing fairly confusing. It looks to me on the things I read that the Kindle is telling me that each screen I read is a "page". It might be a Kindle "page" but it's not particularly helpful if I want to cite something. The "pages" in the Kindle should correspond to the print version. Otherwise, what's the point?

[DiapDealer]

The "pages" in the Kindle should correspond to the print version. Otherwise, what's the point?

I don't know... what's the point of citing something from an edition you're not actually reading? Do people often read one pbook yet cite the page numbers from a different edition of the same pbook? The simplest solution would be to make Kindle location numbers perfectly valid for citation purposes... as I understand many have already done.

[Lazer]

There are numerous books these days that do not have a print version and the gap is going to continually expand. You cannot compare a paperback book to it's hardback version. Amazon might helo clear this up by expanding the percentage at the bottom left to show down to the tenth of a percent such as 56.3%

Do ebooks published as an epub have a better system (such as Nook books)?

[DiapDealer]

Do ebooks published as an epub have a better system (such as Nook books)?

Yes. Their smaller irrelevant numbers are smaller.

[odiakkoh]

I just checked Memoirs of a Geshia, Neverwhere, Eragon and Harry Potter #1. They all have different page numbers depending on hardcover, paperback and mass market paperback so the argument of "what's the point if the Kindle pages don't add up to the pbook" is flawed. Which pbook would you like it to correspond with?

[volwrath]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I agree... They need to completely overhaul the thinking that got them to the top of the heap in the first place. If they don't make some radical, dangerous and ill-thought-out changes-for-change's sake very soon... they're liable to lose everything.

Ha well I dont think it was the mobi format that got Amazon to be #1, do you? Also I dont really condone something radical,dangerous or ill-thought out. How are your cassette tapes? Or your K1? Amazing they update the hardware, but not the format.

Originally Posted by Lazer

Do ebooks published as an epub have a better system (such as Nook books)?

I think the epub format is a better (more versatile) format, yes. And I believe anyone with technical knowledge of each format will agree.

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I don't know if they "need" to change, but I find the page number thing fairly confusing. It looks to me on the things I read that the Kindle is telling me that each screen I read is a "page". It might be a Kindle "page" but it's not particularly helpful if I want to cite something. The "pages" in the Kindle should correspond to the print version. Otherwise, what's the point?

To me the point is that anyone who reads the same kindle book should be able to have the same page number, but instead you have K1 uses who are on location 1214-1233, K3 users who are on location 1216, and k3 users with calibre who are on page 84. Makes no sense.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I don't know... what's the point of citing something from an edition you're not actually reading? Do people often read one pbook yet cite the page numbers from a different edition of the same pbook? The simplest solution would be to make Kindle location numbers perfectly valid for citation purposes... as I understand many have already done.

But the Kindle edition shouldn't really be different, content-wise, from the print edition, should it? It's not like you're reading the second edition of a book and citing information from the first. They're the same, informationally.

[Tome Keeper]

I don't think this is likely to change soon. Inconsistent page numbering across devices is a problem for a very small minority of readers, I don't think Amazon would consider it economical or a priority to fix.

[TimW]

The K3 added pagination recently. "Kindle books that include page numbers will list 'Page Numbers Source ISBN (the print book identification number)' for the matching print edition under 'Product Details' on the detail page at Amazon.com." Pagination files are being added wirelessly as they become available. Excuse the size of the picture.

[tomsem]

BTW Amazon has nothing to do with the 'page numbers' that Calibre generates out of thin air for side-loaded content. These are just 'estimates', not based on actual page numbers of a particular print edition.

[RainingLemur]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I agree... They need to completely overhaul the thinking that got them to the top of the heap in the first place. If they don't make some radical, dangerous and ill-thought-out changes-for-change's sake very soon... they're liable to lose everything.

Think of the children!

[CWatkinsNash]

Vols fan, eh?

Originally Posted by volwrath

I think the epub format is a better (more versatile) format, yes. And I believe anyone with technical knowledge of each format will agree.

Well, yes and no. There are some aspects of it that, frankly, don't matter to most people and never will. The page number thing was added because enough people wanted it. The page number files that come from Amazon are tied to a specific print edition, the ISBN of which is noted on the product page. I don't believe it was ever meant to be anything more than a concession to those who prefer page counts over location. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I tend to be one of them in practice, but I'm not using it for citations, I'm using it to get an idea of how much I'm reading.

Calibre page counts are from a file markup analysis and are merely a convenience feature - one which I happen to use and like very much. It's not meant to duplicate Amazon's implementation, and it's not meant to be exact.

For specific pinpointing of part of a text, it's all about locations, locations, locations.

Originally Posted by volwrath

To me the point is that anyone who reads the same kindle book should be able to have the same page number, but instead you have K1 uses who are on location 1214-1233, K3 users who are on location 1216, and k3 users with calibre who are on page 84. Makes no sense.

Is this actually true? Forget the calibre part for a moment, because those books have locations too, regardless of their page count status. To my knowledge, the nature of locations should make them consistent across devices. I mean, that's how Whispersync syncs furthest read and bookmarks. Can someone actually verify that the same book downloaded to different device versions (K1, K2, K3) show different results?

All that aside, I do agree with your gripe about the TOC/chapter marker thing. Obviously it's too complicated because few publishers/indies seem to be doing it properly. Either that, or they don't care to do it properly. (I've done it, and I personally don't think it's that hard, but I'm not a publisher. )

So I guess my gripe on that isn't so much the mobi spec as it is the fact that people aren't using it.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by TimW

The K3 added pagination recently. "Kindle books that include page numbers will list 'Page Numbers Source ISBN (the print book identification number)' for the matching print edition under 'Product Details' on the detail page at Amazon.com." Pagination files are being added wirelessly as they become available. Excuse the size of the picture.

So does that mean the page number reported on the Kindle is the actual page number of the print edition? I only have one book in both formats, and that book doesn't have page numbers in the Kindle edition.