Question about reviews

VydorScope · 06-03-2011, 08:30 PM

I released my first E-Book via Smashwords back in November, and its has done much better then expected. So far I have 12 reviews on Amazon(4 out of 5 avg), 18 on B&N (3.5 out of 5) and a 4.82 on Smashwords. The part that I find odd is some of the reviewers praise the book highly, 5 stars even. Some trash it like yesterday's rotten milk. Not much in between. Thier comments are often completely contridictory. One says "totally lame", another said "mind numbingly awsome."

Is that just the way it goes? I am about to release book two, and working on book 3 so I was hoping to use the reviews to improve my work, but I am not sure how to balance them?

Marseille · 06-03-2011, 10:02 PM

Some reviewers make their reviews more about themselves than the work being reviewed, and there's nothing you can really do about that. Others are pretty generic, a la "it sucks" and there's nothing to glean from that at all.

As to what you can use, best to go with your instincts. If you see a critique that rings true, address it going forward. If it doesn't ring true, even if it's a potentially good critique, I recommend leaving it behind. I wouldn't write or even modify my stories based on a stranger's instincts, lest they cease to be my stories.

There's also nothing wrong with writing something that not everyone will love -- which means that some methods and mechanisms and occurrences will turn off some of your audience, and you just have to be willing to let them go. Lots of people gush over authors I have no interest in. I doubt it would be in those author's best interests to cater to their non-fans.

GraceKrispy · 06-03-2011, 10:56 PM

I do agree that it's "just the way it goes-" people vary in their tastes, and in their priorities in looking at what constitutes a "good book." For some people, typos can break a book, others are looking at characters, still others look for plot or theme, and some look at writing style. I know sometimes I read a book, write my review, then look at other reviews and think "wow, did we read the same book??" Apparently, my priorities and how I judge the book weren't the same as some other readers.

I looked at your reviews on Amazon and on Smashwords, and it's very interesting that the vast majority of your reviews on both sites are from readers who have *only* reviewed your book and are vague about what they liked, exactly. As a reader, that doesn't give me the information I want to be able to make a selection, or give you helpful feedback. (One 5-star reviewer on Smashwords reviewed it halfway through and gave it 5 stars, then gave it another 5 star review when he finished? That was, err, unusual...)

Overall, if you're looking to improve based on your reviews, I'd say that there was some talk of a simplistic writing style, and praise for the actual content and plot. So if you think the comments made are all honest and you want to take the suggestions, then maybe beef up the details and the level of language (a few commented it seemed more like a YA book) in your book, but keep the same great ideas. That's my read

Whatever you decide to do, best of luck! Writing a book is hard work, and sometimes the feedback can be difficult to swallow.

caleb72 · 06-04-2011, 03:13 AM

In a situation where there is a spread of awesome vs lame, I think that the likes/not likes are not as useful as the 'what' behind them.

What does the reviewer like? What does the reviewer not like?

Then subtract the emotional and assess it as a list. Anything sound valid? That's probably what you want to focus on.

VydorScope · 06-04-2011, 07:48 AM

@GraceKrispy : First I will state categorically none of the reviews on Amazon or Smashwords are plants (assuming you mean ppl who are not expressing their real opinions but are putting 5 stars because I asked/hired/etc them too). I understand how you could see it that way, and appreciate your honesty.

The guy that rated it twice on Smashwords does know me from another internet forum (not real well, we have never met or chatted live), and it is his photo on the cover, but why he posted twice (and why Smashwords allows that) I have no idea. I actually think he did more far more harm then good because he equates the book to Tom Clancy, and my writing is nothing like that. If someone picks up the book expecting that kind of highly technical writing they will be disappointed. Others such as " T. Fruge", "Blake Bos", "Andres", and "Samantha S" are people who I have no idea who are. "Jim Hendricks" is one of my pre-readers, but he mentions that in the review. Most of the reviews on Smashwords and B&N come from people who I have no idea who they are.

Quote:

Overall, if you're looking to improve based on your reviews, I'd say that there was some talk of a simplistic writing style, and praise for the actual content and plot. So if you think the comments made are all honest and you want to take the suggestions, then maybe beef up the details and the level of language (a few commented it seemed more like a YA book) in your book, but keep the same great ideas.

My problem with that advice is I am not sure what it really means.

I am wanting to improve and I really enjoy the craft, so I would like to understand this point better.

I have 3 college degrees and I am working on a Master's degree. My professors tell me that I write my term papers, thesis work, and other school work at the "graduate level." I typically score 90% or better on those papers. That work of course is formal writing and not novels, and it is done under much stricter requirements, with much artificial style placed on top of it so I do not know if it applies at all here. I am assuming you have not read the book, so I am just mentioning it to give some baseline.

I am not sure what I would need to make the writing less "simplistic". Is it the verbiage choices? Is it the number of details? Something else?

In book two I have addressed the "main character is super powerful" problem, I do recognize that criticism was completely valid. I also have added more depth to the characters, because I do feel that was lacking in first book. I added more introspection, and background. My pre-readers tell me book two is a big improvement, so hopefully that is an indication of something.

I know that I enjoy book two more then book one.

Penforhire · 06-04-2011, 11:29 AM

Very few people are capable of writing a proper criticism. When I read reviews I look for cues to who is writing it, the words they chose and the phrasing, to see if there is a chance I would see your work the same way.

On your note about not being like Clancy, maybe he glosses over those details that make a difference when he reads Clancy and you evoke whatever feelings he gets from reading Clancy. He wouldn't be wrong but it is more subjective than defining why he thinks your work is like Clancy's.

VydorScope · 06-04-2011, 12:09 PM

I see I got a new 5 star review over night on Amazon, again from a stranger, and he directly counters the point of view of one of the one stars (even calls it out). I guess I am putting to much faith in the reviews to help me improve? I have written a lot over the years, but this book is the first time I had exposed my writing to anyone but myself (well had some poetry published in one of my prior colleges magazine, but other then that...).

Over 8,000 copies have gone out, so I guess some of them have to hate my work on principle.

apbschmitz · 06-04-2011, 04:10 PM

I suppose everybody has a technique for processing reviews. I skim them, try to put them out of mind (though of course this requires mental discipline that not even the Zen masters possess), then return to them a few weeks later. That's when I try to sort out, in as cool a state as possible, what seems valid and what seems like gibberish. Honest, helpful criticism, packaged in such a way that you can accept it and learn something from it, is probably one of the higher art forms. Which is to say, I wouldn't expect to stub my toes on it every day.

GraceKrispy · 06-04-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

@GraceKrispy : First I will state categorically none of the reviews on Amazon or Smashwords are plants (assuming you mean ppl who are not expressing their real opinions but are putting 5 stars because I asked/hired/etc them too). I understand how you could see it that way, and appreciate your honesty.

I have 3 college degrees and I am working on a Master's degree. My professors tell me that I write my term papers, thesis work, and other school work at the "graduate level." I typically score 90% or better on those papers. That work of course is formal writing and not novels, and it is done under much stricter requirements, with much artificial style placed on top of it so I do not know if it applies at all here. I am assuming you have not read the book, so I am just mentioning it to give some baseline.

I am not sure what I would need to make the writing less "simplistic". Is it the verbiage choices? Is it the number of details? Something else?

In book two I have addressed the "main character is super powerful" problem, I do recognize that criticism was completely valid. I also have added more depth to the characters, because I do feel that was lacking in first book. I added more introspection, and background. My pre-readers tell me book two is a big improvement, so hopefully that is an indication of something.

I know that I enjoy book two more then book one.

I did end up changing my original post, because I didn't want to imply you somehow *had* planted those reviews, just that they were the type of reviews that make me (as a reader) go "huh." I find reviews that are critical, pointing out both good and bad, as most helpful when I look for books to read. I write quite a bit of research in my "real" life, and I do agree it's a very different type of writing. I can write killer research, but I'm not sure I can make a fiction story come to life

I have commented before that some stories feel more simplistic or geared for a younger audience, and it's really hard to quantify that feeling, so I can see why it's difficult to know how to change it. I think adding depth to the characters, as you've done in the second book, does go a long way towards possibly rectifying the "ya" angle. For me, it's really about those word choices and the length and construction of sentences. As I haven't read your book, I wouldn't be able to comment on yours in particular, but I know some books I've read (intended for adults) have sentences that are all very simple and equally short, without variety in length, and lack some description. The only other thing I can think of that adds to simplicity is a lack of voice. Stories that lack voice, to me, are stories that are more difficult to really "get into." Details, really differentiating characters, and nicely flowing writing all help in that area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

I guess I am putting to much faith in the reviews to help me improve? I have written a lot over the years, but this book is the first time I had exposed my writing to anyone but myself

My personal opinions on reviews is this: consider every review that you get with regards to the positives and negatives, think about your own writing and whether any of it rings true (like you did with the main character), make changes if you feel it would improve your work, then let it everything else roll off your back. What's the saying? Opinions are like ....., everyone has one

We all have different things we like or don't like about the stories we read, and being open to honest feedback is a wonderful thing. In the end, the story is yours the way you want to tell it. And there's not a thing wrong with that!

jrlewis · 06-04-2011, 08:11 PM

I'm a little surprised that you're getting so many folks eager to criticize. My experience is that folks in general love you or hate you and the reviews as a whole trend in one direction. It's really interesting that your book is getting both sorts of feedback.

If you think the criticism is intelligent or reasonable, I'd say you should try to address it, but I wouldn't worry about it much.

dworth · 06-07-2011, 04:30 AM

What jrwlewis said. I'll bet all of us on this site who write have had some stinking reviews at times. You can't please everyone, but if they offer constructive criticism I'd at least consider what they say. I also wonder whether if someone hates a book that has lots of glowing reviews attached to it that it perhaps encourages them to be even more vitriolic in response, and in this case they're really having a go at the other reviews AND your book at once.

It's worth bearing in mind that even the most lauded works still receive one star reviews. Have a search for some of the classics. I can guarantee that no matter how good the book, someone will hate it.

Andrew Ashling · 06-07-2011, 08:26 AM

One of the difficulties with reviews is that most of the time you don't know who is writing it.
Personally (and I mean here in trying to form a opinion about books by others) I don't attach too much importance to them if the reviewer has few or no other reviews. I also look if their reviews are balanced. What conclusions can you draw from the reviews of someone who hates every book s/he reads?

mr ploppy · 06-07-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrlewis

I'm a little surprised that you're getting so many folks eager to criticize. My experience is that folks in general love you or hate you and the reviews as a whole trend in one direction. It's really interesting that your book is getting both sorts of feedback.

If you think the criticism is intelligent or reasonable, I'd say you should try to address it, but I wouldn't worry about it much.

Bad reviews come from people who are expecting something other than what they get. That would be mostly down to either a misleading description/blurb, or marketing it at the wrong type of people.

dworth · 06-07-2011, 03:44 PM

"Bad reviews come from people who are expecting something other than what they get"

Possibly, though I did see a one star review for George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four that complained that it was too depressing. It's a story about a totalitarian nightmare future; what were they expecting, a few laughs!?

mr ploppy · 06-08-2011, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dworth

"Bad reviews come from people who are expecting something other than what they get"

Possibly, though I did see a one star review for George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four that complained that it was too depressing. It's a story about a totalitarian nightmare future; what were they expecting, a few laughs!?

Historical drama set in 1984? This is the first line of the Amazon UK blurb:

“His final masterpiece. Enthralling and indispensible for understanding modern history (Timothy Garton Ash )”

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...rBy=addOneStar

06-03-2011, 08:30 PM	#1
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	Question about reviews I released my first E-Book via Smashwords back in November, and its has done much better then expected. So far I have 12 reviews on Amazon(4 out of 5 avg), 18 on B&N (3.5 out of 5) and a 4.82 on Smashwords. The part that I find odd is some of the reviewers praise the book highly, 5 stars even. Some trash it like yesterday's rotten milk. Not much in between. Thier comments are often completely contridictory. One says "totally lame", another said "mind numbingly awsome." Is that just the way it goes? I am about to release book two, and working on book 3 so I was hoping to use the reviews to improve my work, but I am not sure how to balance them?

06-03-2011, 10:56 PM	#3
GraceKrispy It's Dr. Penguin now! Posts: 3,909 Karma: 4705733 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: (USA) Device: iPad mini, Samsung Note 3, Sony PRS-650 (rarely used now)	I do agree that it's "just the way it goes-" people vary in their tastes, and in their priorities in looking at what constitutes a "good book." For some people, typos can break a book, others are looking at characters, still others look for plot or theme, and some look at writing style. I know sometimes I read a book, write my review, then look at other reviews and think "wow, did we read the same book??" Apparently, my priorities and how I judge the book weren't the same as some other readers. I looked at your reviews on Amazon and on Smashwords, and it's very interesting that the vast majority of your reviews on both sites are from readers who have only reviewed your book and are vague about what they liked, exactly. As a reader, that doesn't give me the information I want to be able to make a selection, or give you helpful feedback. (One 5-star reviewer on Smashwords reviewed it halfway through and gave it 5 stars, then gave it another 5 star review when he finished? That was, err, unusual...) Overall, if you're looking to improve based on your reviews, I'd say that there was some talk of a simplistic writing style, and praise for the actual content and plot. So if you think the comments made are all honest and you want to take the suggestions, then maybe beef up the details and the level of language (a few commented it seemed more like a YA book) in your book, but keep the same great ideas. That's my read Whatever you decide to do, best of luck! Writing a book is hard work, and sometimes the feedback can be difficult to swallow. Last edited by GraceKrispy; 06-04-2011 at 02:22 AM. Reason: just because...

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06-03-2011, 10:02 PM	#2
Marseille Guru Posts: 687 Karma: 5700000 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: kindle	Some reviewers make their reviews more about themselves than the work being reviewed, and there's nothing you can really do about that. Others are pretty generic, a la "it sucks" and there's nothing to glean from that at all. As to what you can use, best to go with your instincts. If you see a critique that rings true, address it going forward. If it doesn't ring true, even if it's a potentially good critique, I recommend leaving it behind. I wouldn't write or even modify my stories based on a stranger's instincts, lest they cease to be my stories. There's also nothing wrong with writing something that not everyone will love -- which means that some methods and mechanisms and occurrences will turn off some of your audience, and you just have to be willing to let them go. Lots of people gush over authors I have no interest in. I doubt it would be in those author's best interests to cater to their non-fans.

06-04-2011, 03:13 AM	#4
caleb72 Indie Advocate Posts: 2,863 Karma: 18794463 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: Kindle	In a situation where there is a spread of awesome vs lame, I think that the likes/not likes are not as useful as the 'what' behind them. What does the reviewer like? What does the reviewer not like? Then subtract the emotional and assess it as a list. Anything sound valid? That's probably what you want to focus on.

06-04-2011, 11:29 AM	#6
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	Very few people are capable of writing a proper criticism. When I read reviews I look for cues to who is writing it, the words they chose and the phrasing, to see if there is a chance I would see your work the same way. On your note about not being like Clancy, maybe he glosses over those details that make a difference when he reads Clancy and you evoke whatever feelings he gets from reading Clancy. He wouldn't be wrong but it is more subjective than defining why he thinks your work is like Clancy's.

06-04-2011, 12:09 PM	#7
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	I see I got a new 5 star review over night on Amazon, again from a stranger, and he directly counters the point of view of one of the one stars (even calls it out). I guess I am putting to much faith in the reviews to help me improve? I have written a lot over the years, but this book is the first time I had exposed my writing to anyone but myself (well had some poetry published in one of my prior colleges magazine, but other then that...). Over 8,000 copies have gone out, so I guess some of them have to hate my work on principle.

06-04-2011, 04:10 PM	#8
apbschmitz Lord of Frogtown Posts: 149 Karma: 1154748 Join Date: May 2011 Location: St. Paul MN Device: Kindle	I suppose everybody has a technique for processing reviews. I skim them, try to put them out of mind (though of course this requires mental discipline that not even the Zen masters possess), then return to them a few weeks later. That's when I try to sort out, in as cool a state as possible, what seems valid and what seems like gibberish. Honest, helpful criticism, packaged in such a way that you can accept it and learn something from it, is probably one of the higher art forms. Which is to say, I wouldn't expect to stub my toes on it every day.

06-04-2011, 08:11 PM	#10
jrlewis SF/F Author Posts: 160 Karma: 349656 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Device: Adobe Digital Editions	I'm a little surprised that you're getting so many folks eager to criticize. My experience is that folks in general love you or hate you and the reviews as a whole trend in one direction. It's really interesting that your book is getting both sorts of feedback. If you think the criticism is intelligent or reasonable, I'd say you should try to address it, but I wouldn't worry about it much.

06-07-2011, 04:30 AM	#11
dworth Zealot Posts: 140 Karma: 2094632 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bradford, UK Device: kindle pc	What jrwlewis said. I'll bet all of us on this site who write have had some stinking reviews at times. You can't please everyone, but if they offer constructive criticism I'd at least consider what they say. I also wonder whether if someone hates a book that has lots of glowing reviews attached to it that it perhaps encourages them to be even more vitriolic in response, and in this case they're really having a go at the other reviews AND your book at once. It's worth bearing in mind that even the most lauded works still receive one star reviews. Have a search for some of the classics. I can guarantee that no matter how good the book, someone will hate it.

06-07-2011, 08:26 AM	#12
Andrew Ashling Connoisseur Posts: 60 Karma: 549264 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: I divide my time between Ormidon, Ximerion and Antwerp, Belgium Device: Kobo Glo HD, Kobo Aura H2O, Kobo Clara, Kobo Aura One, Kobo Libra H2O	One of the difficulties with reviews is that most of the time you don't know who is writing it. Personally (and I mean here in trying to form a opinion about books by others) I don't attach too much importance to them if the reviewer has few or no other reviews. I also look if their reviews are balanced. What conclusions can you draw from the reviews of someone who hates every book s/he reads?

06-07-2011, 03:44 PM	#14
dworth Zealot Posts: 140 Karma: 2094632 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bradford, UK Device: kindle pc	"Bad reviews come from people who are expecting something other than what they get" Possibly, though I did see a one star review for George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four that complained that it was too depressing. It's a story about a totalitarian nightmare future; what were they expecting, a few laughs!?