Reality check

rlauzon · 02-26-2008, 09:02 PM

Just to verify that I am not seeing things:

HTML documents - image tags don't work, right?

Also, when viewing text or PalmDOC files, multiple spaces seem to come across as small boxes (single spaces appear just fine). I verified that the files have spaces and not some sort of strange character. Is this normal?

The delete button doesn't work yet, right?

tompe · 02-26-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Also, when viewing text or PalmDOC files, multiple spaces seem to come across as small boxes (single spaces appear just fine). I verified that the files have spaces and not some sort of strange character. Is this normal?

Have not seen that (the other things was correct). How did you verify what character it was? Was it really two 0x20?

HarryT · 02-27-2008, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Just to verify that I am not seeing things:

HTML documents - image tags don't work, right?

No external references work. Best to use Mobi Creator (or whatever) to convert the HTML to Mobi if you want image, links between HTML files, etc.

Quote:

Also, when viewing text or PalmDOC files, multiple spaces seem to come across as small boxes (single spaces appear just fine). I verified that the files have spaces and not some sort of strange character. Is this normal?

That's a new one! Just tried it and it seems to work fine for me.

Quote:

The delete button doesn't work yet, right?

Correct. As the user guide tells you

rlauzon · 02-27-2008, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Have not seen that (the other things was correct). How did you verify what character it was? Was it really two 0x20?

Ya, I did a hexedit on the file and they were a 0x20.

rlauzon · 02-27-2008, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

No external references work. Best to use Mobi Creator (or whatever) to convert the HTML to Mobi if you want image, links between HTML files, etc.

Mobipocket is a proprietary format and should be avoided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Correct. As the user guide tells you

The manual! Who reads the manual?

rlauzon · 02-27-2008, 07:31 AM

I just did some more testing on the text file strangeness.

At work (where we actually pay to use buggy, insecure operating systems) I created a text file, using Notepad and put it on my Cybook. The same problem. Anywhere there is a group of spaces, all but 1 of the spaces is replaced by a box character (the usual character that most devices display when they don't understand the character).

Using a hex editor, the file on the SD card in the Cybook has 0x20s there. So they are spaces. But the Cybook doesn't take them as such.

Note that single spaces display just fine.

HarryT · 02-27-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

Mobipocket is a proprietary format and should be avoided.

<shrug>

It can trivially be converted back to HTML using non-proprietory tools. It was just a suggestion - take it or leave it.

Quote:

The manual! Who reads the manual?

You wouldn't have had to ask the question if you'd done so

.

tompe · 02-27-2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

It can trivially be converted back to HTML using non-proprietory tools. It was just a suggestion - take it or leave it.

I do not believe this is true. It is not trivial and all available tools seems to have bugs or limitations that makes it fail on files.

HarryT · 02-27-2008, 09:43 AM

It was your tool that I was referring to, Tommy. It's worked beautifully on the files that I've tried it with! In any case, if Lauzon is converting files for his own use, the "reversibility" or otherwise of the format is irrevelent, since he'll have the original files to re-convert if required. I certainly don't think that being "proprietory" or otherwise is a reason to avoid a file format. The important thing (IMHO) is the availablity of tools to work with the format, not whether or not someone "owns" the specification. Largely thanks to you, we have some excellent tools available to work with MobiPocket files.

rlauzon · 02-27-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

It was your tool that I was referring to, Tommy. It's worked beautifully on the files that I've tried it with! In any case, if Lauzon is converting files for his own use, the "reversibility" or otherwise of the format is irrevelent, since he'll have the original files to re-convert if required. I certainly don't think that being "proprietory" or otherwise is a reason to avoid a file format.

I've asked you this several times:
1. Where is the open source version of mobigen?
2. Where are the complete specifications of the Mobipocket format so that an open source version of mobigen can be created?

You've never answered when I asked. I believe that the reason is that the answers are:
1. There is none.
2. They are not publicly available.

A format that relies on any single entity (even a company like Mobipocket that's been generous so far) forms a monopoly and monopolies are always bad for the consumer.

Remember that 10 years ago, Microsoft said it was OK to take your company's MS Office CDs home to install on your home computer. Very generous. That's certainly not Microsoft's policy today.

Companies can change their mind. The only way to protect yourself is simply not to rely on the generosity (or even the word of) a single company.

Until the Mobipocket format is open sourced, it's proprietary and should be avoided like the plague.

HarryT · 02-27-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

I've asked you this several times:
1. Where is the open source version of mobigen?

tompe's written open source Python tools to compile, edit the metadata of, and decompile MobiPocket files. Give them a go - they work great and run on any o/s which supports Python!

Quote:

2. Where are the complete specifications of the Mobipocket format so that an open source version of mobigen can be created?

Ask tompe!

rlauzon · 02-27-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

tompe's written open source Python tools to compile, edit the metadata of, and decompile MobiPocket files. Give them a go - they work great and run on any o/s which supports Python!

I assume that you mean this:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20341

Which doesn't do what you think it does and that thread contains no links to code that can be used to create a Mobipocket eBook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Ask tompe!

If tompe's not Mobipocket, that does nothing.

So I'll ask yet again (without hope for useful information):
1. Where is the open source version of mobigen?
2. Where are the complete specifications of the Mobipocket format so that an open source version of mobigen can be created?

Gudy · 02-27-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

I assume that you mean this:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20341

Which doesn't do what you think it does and that thread contains no links to code that can be used to create a Mobipocket eBook.

No, he means this, which does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlauzon

So I'll ask yet again (without hope for useful information):
1. Where is the open source version of mobigen?
2. Where are the complete specifications of the Mobipocket format so that an open source version of mobigen can be created?

1. MobiPerl may not be exactly mobigen, but it certainly allows you to create a Mobipocket file from HTML and is open source.

2. MobiPerl is open source. If you want to duplicate tompe's effort, though, or want to insist on Mobipocket freely publicizing their specification, feel free to do so. But in that case you're barking up the wrong tree.

rlauzon · 02-27-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gudy

No, he means this, which does.

Ah, yes, the infamous perl utility. I tried that a while back but couldn't get the graphics libraries working on my system. If the utility is stable now, I might try it again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gudy

2. MobiPerl is open source. If you want to duplicate tompe's effort, though, or want to insist on Mobipocket freely publicizing their specification, feel free to do so. But in that case you're barking up the wrong tree.

What I really want is a Mobipocket created (or at least blessed) version. Reverse-engineering a proprietary format always has problems.

HarryT · 02-27-2008, 11:27 AM

Well, as I said at the start of all this, it's your choice. You can either stick with the pretty ropey HTML support of the Gen3 (no images, no cross-file links, etc) or you can create functional MobiPocket books using any one of the excellent free tools which are available, either from Mobi themselves or as a result of tompe's hard work. The choice is entirely yours. All anyone's trying to do here is provide you with options; it's entirely your decision what you do.

02-26-2008, 09:02 PM	#1
rlauzon Wizard Posts: 1,018 Karma: 67827 Join Date: Jan 2005 Device: PocketBook Era	Reality check Just to verify that I am not seeing things: HTML documents - image tags don't work, right? Also, when viewing text or PalmDOC files, multiple spaces seem to come across as small boxes (single spaces appear just fine). I verified that the files have spaces and not some sort of strange character. Is this normal? The delete button doesn't work yet, right?

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02-27-2008, 07:31 AM	#6
rlauzon Wizard Posts: 1,018 Karma: 67827 Join Date: Jan 2005 Device: PocketBook Era	I just did some more testing on the text file strangeness. At work (where we actually pay to use buggy, insecure operating systems) I created a text file, using Notepad and put it on my Cybook. The same problem. Anywhere there is a group of spaces, all but 1 of the spaces is replaced by a box character (the usual character that most devices display when they don't understand the character). Using a hex editor, the file on the SD card in the Cybook has 0x20s there. So they are spaces. But the Cybook doesn't take them as such. Note that single spaces display just fine.

02-27-2008, 09:43 AM	#9
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	It was your tool that I was referring to, Tommy. It's worked beautifully on the files that I've tried it with! In any case, if Lauzon is converting files for his own use, the "reversibility" or otherwise of the format is irrevelent, since he'll have the original files to re-convert if required. I certainly don't think that being "proprietory" or otherwise is a reason to avoid a file format. The important thing (IMHO) is the availablity of tools to work with the format, not whether or not someone "owns" the specification. Largely thanks to you, we have some excellent tools available to work with MobiPocket files.

02-27-2008, 11:27 AM	#15
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Well, as I said at the start of all this, it's your choice. You can either stick with the pretty ropey HTML support of the Gen3 (no images, no cross-file links, etc) or you can create functional MobiPocket books using any one of the excellent free tools which are available, either from Mobi themselves or as a result of tompe's hard work. The choice is entirely yours. All anyone's trying to do here is provide you with options; it's entirely your decision what you do.