Time Travel

[FixB]

"To Say Nothing of the Dog" really is a fantastic book !
In totally another style, I recently appreciated Jon Courtenay Grimwood's "Stamping Butterflies" which should qualify as Time Travel.

[mazzeltjes]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

Racist? Whom does Heinlein discriminate there?
I am curious, I have not read this book.

Interesting review here:

http://www.troynovant.com/Stoddard/H...-Freehold.html

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

A splendid book. Side-splittingly funny. And even more so if you've read "Three Men in a Boat" by Jerome K. Jerome. (And if you haven't, you should. My sister described him to her children as "the Victorian's Dave Barry." Another hysterically funny book.)

And also read _Three Men on the Bummell_, a more or less sequel.

Both are available in the Uploads section.
______
Dennis

[astra]

Originally Posted by mazzeltjes

Interesting review here:

http://www.troynovant.com/Stoddard/H...-Freehold.html

Thanks.
Gotta read it.

[mores]

This thread got me interested ... gonna start with Heinlein's "All You Zombies".
Good thing Mobipocket for Symbian can read HTML files!

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by mazzeltjes

Interesting review here:

http://www.troynovant.com/Stoddard/H...-Freehold.html

I'm inclined to agree with the reviewer's interpretation. (But I still didn't like the book-- I think I just didn't like any of the characters enough, and I thought the ending was rather lame.)

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I'm inclined to agree with the reviewer's interpretation. (But I still didn't like the book-- I think I just didn't like any of the characters enough, and I thought the ending was rather lame.)

I concur with the review as well.

You can draw an interesting parallel with Norman Spinrad's _The Iron Dream_. The Iron Dream is an interesting alternate history novel. The conceit is that it was written in a history in which Adolph Hitler emigrated to the United States instead of becoming leader of Nazi Germany, and the book is a pulp SF novel supposedly written by the alternate Hitler.

It takes place in a post nuclear holocaust world, where the protagonist rises to leadership of his country, and leads it in a successful campaign against the various mutants left over from the holocaust and their masters, the evil Doms, thus saving his world for true humanity. In the early stages, it's a classic pulp SF action/adventure tale, and you root for the noble hero as he struggles against the forces of darkness. But this is a book written by Adolph Hitler, from Hitler's warped perspective, and as the story progresses and the ideology comes to the forefront, you start to realize the slippery slope you are standing on, and just what you've bought into.

I think Spinrad's handling of the idea is more effective than Heinlein's, but he's traveling similar moral ground.
______
Dennis

[DDHarriman]

Hi

Amazing how these forums are great!

This talking about Heinlein and the personal (so opposite sometimes) opinions about the book is wonderful, and if I can not less agree with the mazzeltjes “…Farnhams Freehold is a racist piece of thrash…”, I could not thank him more for pointing to the review, this one yes, I identify myself completely with.

I’m very pleased that this has even let people thinking about reading the book… what more one could ask?

For the ending part of the book, let me say again: “they did not come back to the same world, did they”?

Just bringing a bit more heat to the fire: what you thing about “Starship Troopers”?

Best regards,

[mazzeltjes]

Originally Posted by DDHarriman

Hi

Amazing how these forums are great!

This talking about Heinlein and the personal (so opposite sometimes) opinions about the book is wonderful, and if I can not less agree with the mazzeltjes “…Farnhams Freehold is a racist piece of thrash…”, I could not thank him more for pointing to the review, this one yes, I identify myself completely with.

I’m very pleased that this has even let people thinking about reading the book… what more one could ask?

For the ending part of the book, let me say again: “they did not come back to the same world, did they”?

Just bringing a bit more heat to the fire: what you thing about “Starship Troopers”?

Best regards,

Brilliant piece of cold war xenophobic thinking on top
interesting philosophical and moral discussion underneath
The movie slaughters the novel
Heinlein in fine preachy mood
To get an idea of the main themes in Heinlein's work read:
For us the Living(1939)

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/newsFUTL.html

[mores]

Originally Posted by DDHarriman

Just bringing a bit more heat to the fire: what you thing about “Starship Troopers”?

the movie?
one of verhoven's best movies. cynical, action-packed, intelligent and funny.
book: no idea, didn't read it.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by mores

the movie?
one of verhoven's best movies. cynical, action-packed, intelligent and funny.
book: no idea, didn't read it.

Burn the Heretic! Burn Him!

Joking aside, the movie tried really hard to not butcher the book. The book was still butchered.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Burn the Heretic! Burn Him!

Joking aside, the movie tried really hard to not butcher the book. The book was still butchered.

I wouldn't say the movie tried hard not to butcher the book. It couldn't have avoided doing so. Verhoven and Heinlein were not only not on the same page in their views of the topic, they weren't even in the same book.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by mores

the movie?
one of verhoven's best movies. cynical, action-packed, intelligent and funny.
book: no idea, didn't read it.

Read the book, and your opinion of the movie may alter.

I though Verhoven's film was mind-numbingly stupid. My opinion might differ if I hadn't read the book, but I suspect I wouldn't have found it a lot better.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by mazzeltjes

Brilliant piece of cold war xenophobic thinking on top
interesting philosophical and moral discussion underneath
The movie slaughters the novel
Heinlein in fine preachy mood

From where I sit, it's a coming-of-age story.

Spoiled rich kid Johnny Rico learns to grow up and take responsibility, as a member of the Mobile Infantry, against the backdrop of an interstellar war.

Johnny's moral development can be charted by the different answers he gives to the question of why the Mobile Infantry fights at different stages in the book.

I think Heinlein originally intended this for the Juvenile/YA series he was doing for Scribners, but it was a bit too grown up for what they wanted.

To get an idea of the main themes in Heinlein's work read:
For us the Living(1939)

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/newsFUTL.html

Better, don't read it. It's an early formerly unpublished work, and there are good reasons it was unpublished.

The Heinlein Society tends toward hagiography in their treatment of RAH, and I doubt they think he ever wrote a bad word. I met him, and I don't think he'd agree with that glowing assessment. He was a working professional writer, and even the books at the end of his career are interesting, if flawed, because it was obvious he was reaching for something new, and trying to take the next step in his development.

Read "We, the Living" last, if you read it at all. Read it first, and you might be put off of reading anything else RAH wrote.
______
Dennis

[mazzeltjes]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I wouldn't say the movie tried hard not to butcher the book. It couldn't have avoided doing so. Verhoven and Heinlein were not only not on the same page in their views of the topic, they weren't even in the same book.
______
Dennis