Kindle confidentiality and security questions

ritef · 03-26-2011, 07:50 PM

I have a couple of questions regarding the confidentiality of documents (PDFs) loaded onto a Kindle:

1.
Is it possible to securely load a confidential document onto a Kindle? Can I simply load a document from my computer, in other words, via USB, to the Kindle, without that document ever traveling elsewhere? Will any PDF I load onto my Kindle (say, through Calibre) also be ported somehow to Amazon.com?

2.
I have not yet purchased the Kindle but I’m going to soon. I’m mostly interested in using it as a personal PDF reader. If I decided to return it, is there a guaranteed, safe and secure way to erase PDFs that you’ve loaded onto the Kindle? Can one restore a Kindle to its original state, or will even a post-restore Kindle still contain your document somewhere, just as erased Windows files will remain on your HD (unless they are DBANd and the like) and are often retrievable? I’m curious about text-only PDFs if that matters.

Thank you.

Piper_ · 03-26-2011, 07:57 PM

Good question.

In the kindle developers forum, there's a long thread analyzing the logging between K2s and Amazon, and they can give one pause. But the last I saw, the K3 might be better.

I think a lot of concern is caused by the idea that Amazon is said to keep track of your pages and notes, but I think that's only when you use the option to synchronize.

If I had to return one that had held confidential docs, I'd hook it up and run a file wiper on it first. I use eraser, which has a long and positive history in the geek community.

Welcome to MobileRead and Kindle.

JeremyR · 03-26-2011, 08:12 PM

Is there a link to the thread about the logs? I've seen people mention it all the time, but they never link and I can't find it. (I can find a thread about a hack to erase the log, but not that actual log)

And 2), don't buy a Kindle to read PDFs. It's not meant for it and not very good. If you must, get a DX, but you really probably want some sort of tablet...

6charlong · 03-26-2011, 08:44 PM

This issue troubled me enough when I started using my Kindle that I phoned Amazon CS about it. They said that in the past they had the ability to delete a file remotely but never have had the ability to read or copy a file.

Piper is right about wiping files. When you plug your Kindle into a Windows PC it appears like any other storage media. You can see it in Windows Explorer, copy files to it, delete files from it and use a file destruction program to repeatedly overwrite the file. Of course, if you lose physical control of your Kindle someone else can also access the files on it.

The Kindle has a password feature that you can turn on which requires a password to access the documents on it. The screen is too small to read PDF image files but it can render PDF text files in a more or less readable form. I don't know if the password can prevent someone from getting to the files using Windows Explorer.

FF2 · 03-26-2011, 09:07 PM

If you enable the k3's password (I don't know dx or other kindles), when you plug in the usb, it will not go into "drive" mode until you enter the password.

Just today (this site or another???) someone mentioned that on the "hidden" partition, Amazon keeps some info (that's the linux drive) but I did not follow that conversation. I have no idea if they do keep stuff or not. You can only get to the linux stuff by using some arcane hacks further discussed in the Developers' forum.

ritef · 03-26-2011, 11:50 PM

To Piper:

Thanks. I have Eraser and it’s good to know I can use it.

To JeremyR:

I just need to read Word docs converted to PDF—no tables or diagrams and so forth. From what I’ve seen, in many places, the Kindle 3 seems to handle that well, such as what I see in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crgpr1LO7ns

If you or anybody feels that would give me trouble though, I’d love to hear about it. (I see 6Charlong notes, “The screen is too small to read PDF image files but it can render PDF text files in a more or less readable form.”)

To all:

As for my question concerning confidentiality, it’s interesting (and maybe a little alarming) that consumers (Kindle owners—informed ones, in fact) do not seem to know with certainty how invasive Amazon.com might be.

FF2 · 03-27-2011, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ritef

To all:

As for my question concerning confidentiality, it’s interesting (and maybe a little alarming) that consumers (Kindle owners—informed ones, in fact) do not seem to know with certainty how invasive Amazon.com might be.

Ba, Ba, Graphite sheep......

I elicited a hack that supposedly sends the log file off into the atmosphere but really don't know if that is working or not. Some of us would like to know more. Some pass around their tinfoil hats. It is not easy or maybe not possible to learn what the Big A is learning about us on issues such as private books/docs not acquired from them.

avantman42 · 03-27-2011, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ritef

I just need to read Word docs converted to PDF—no tables or diagrams and so forth.

If you can change the Word document's page size to the same size as the Kindle screen before you convert to PDF, that will help make it easier to read on the Kindle.

alsaan · 03-27-2011, 05:37 AM

Don't trust Eraser too much, it might not be effective if the Kindle uses some kind of wear leveling mechanism.

HarryT · 03-27-2011, 05:51 AM

If you have confidential documents, you really shouldn't be using any eBook reader. You should be using a device that supports "proper" data encryption. The Kindle's password feature may stop your kid sister from reading your books; it most assuredly will be no obstacle to anyone seriously interested in your data.

Xiaopangzi · 03-27-2011, 10:19 AM

Or you could compile the cryptoloop module for the kindle's kernel and have "proper" encryption (aes, blowfish, twofish, etc...). The problem is coming up with a convenient interface to enter the password on the kindle; when ssh'ed into into the kindle mounting an encrypted image works just fine. Confidential data is completely safe after resetting the kindle. Indexing should probably be disabled while an encrypted image is mounted.

abookreader · 03-27-2011, 10:41 AM

If your documents truly need to be confidential and you want to use the Kindle - I'd recommend getting the Kindle, registering it, then turning the WiFi/3G off and never turning it back on again. Utilize the USB cable and sideload only.

As for the PDF on the 6" Kindle. Not my favorite. Is it possible to save those .doc files as html, then converting that to mobi? I've had much better results with that method than trying to read PDF files on a Kindle.

HarryT · 03-27-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abookreader

If your documents truly need to be confidential and you want to use the Kindle - I'd recommend getting the Kindle, registering it, then turning the WiFi/3G off and never turning it back on again. Utilize the USB cable and sideload only.

How will that help if someone steals your Kindle?

DreamWriter · 03-27-2011, 01:43 PM

If you set the margins and text size properly in MS Word before converting to PDF, it can be quite readable on the Kindle. But most "standard" PDFs, sized for 8-1/2" x 11" paper, are extremely difficult to read on the Kindle. With those, you have to zoom in and then navigate side to side to read. With standard PDFs, you can change the Kindle screen orientation from portrait to landscape. That makes the text easier to read, but it takes a few clicks to read down each page that way and it feels a bit awkward.

abookreader · 03-27-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

How will that help if someone steals your Kindle?

It doesn't. But my husband regularly totes around huge briefcases packed with confidential paper. They also are are unencrypted and readable should they be stolen. Keeping the Kindle in his possession isn't all that different than keeping his bag in his possession.

03-26-2011, 07:50 PM	#1
ritef Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: none	Kindle confidentiality and security questions I have a couple of questions regarding the confidentiality of documents (PDFs) loaded onto a Kindle: 1. Is it possible to securely load a confidential document onto a Kindle? Can I simply load a document from my computer, in other words, via USB, to the Kindle, without that document ever traveling elsewhere? Will any PDF I load onto my Kindle (say, through Calibre) also be ported somehow to Amazon.com? 2. I have not yet purchased the Kindle but I’m going to soon. I’m mostly interested in using it as a personal PDF reader. If I decided to return it, is there a guaranteed, safe and secure way to erase PDFs that you’ve loaded onto the Kindle? Can one restore a Kindle to its original state, or will even a post-restore Kindle still contain your document somewhere, just as erased Windows files will remain on your HD (unless they are DBANd and the like) and are often retrievable? I’m curious about text-only PDFs if that matters. Thank you.

03-27-2011, 05:51 AM	#10
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	If you have confidential documents, you really shouldn't be using any eBook reader. You should be using a device that supports "proper" data encryption. The Kindle's password feature may stop your kid sister from reading your books; it most assuredly will be no obstacle to anyone seriously interested in your data. Last edited by HarryT; 03-27-2011 at 05:53 AM.

03-27-2011, 01:43 PM	#14
DreamWriter Books are brain food. Posts: 2,950 Karma: 4836916 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: U.S. Device: Paperwhite · Fire HD6/HD8/HD10 · Galaxy Tab A7	If you set the margins and text size properly in MS Word before converting to PDF, it can be quite readable on the Kindle. But most "standard" PDFs, sized for 8-1/2" x 11" paper, are extremely difficult to read on the Kindle. With those, you have to zoom in and then navigate side to side to read. With standard PDFs, you can change the Kindle screen orientation from portrait to landscape. That makes the text easier to read, but it takes a few clicks to read down each page that way and it feels a bit awkward. Last edited by DreamWriter; 01-20-2014 at 07:41 PM.

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03-26-2011, 07:57 PM	#2
Piper_ ~~~~~ Posts: 761 Karma: 1278391 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: USA Device: Kindle 3, Sony 350	Good question. In the kindle developers forum, there's a long thread analyzing the logging between K2s and Amazon, and they can give one pause. But the last I saw, the K3 might be better. I think a lot of concern is caused by the idea that Amazon is said to keep track of your pages and notes, but I think that's only when you use the option to synchronize. If I had to return one that had held confidential docs, I'd hook it up and run a file wiper on it first. I use eraser, which has a long and positive history in the geek community. Welcome to MobileRead and Kindle.

03-26-2011, 08:12 PM	#3
JeremyR Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 2458402 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: St. Louis Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+	Is there a link to the thread about the logs? I've seen people mention it all the time, but they never link and I can't find it. (I can find a thread about a hack to erase the log, but not that actual log) And 2), don't buy a Kindle to read PDFs. It's not meant for it and not very good. If you must, get a DX, but you really probably want some sort of tablet...

03-26-2011, 08:44 PM	#4
6charlong friendly lurker Posts: 896 Karma: 2436026 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: US Device: Kindle, nook, Apple and Kobo	This issue troubled me enough when I started using my Kindle that I phoned Amazon CS about it. They said that in the past they had the ability to delete a file remotely but never have had the ability to read or copy a file. Piper is right about wiping files. When you plug your Kindle into a Windows PC it appears like any other storage media. You can see it in Windows Explorer, copy files to it, delete files from it and use a file destruction program to repeatedly overwrite the file. Of course, if you lose physical control of your Kindle someone else can also access the files on it. The Kindle has a password feature that you can turn on which requires a password to access the documents on it. The screen is too small to read PDF image files but it can render PDF text files in a more or less readable form. I don't know if the password can prevent someone from getting to the files using Windows Explorer.

03-26-2011, 09:07 PM	#5
FF2 Wizard Posts: 1,105 Karma: 1025784 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: WiFi Kindle3	If you enable the k3's password (I don't know dx or other kindles), when you plug in the usb, it will not go into "drive" mode until you enter the password. Just today (this site or another???) someone mentioned that on the "hidden" partition, Amazon keeps some info (that's the linux drive) but I did not follow that conversation. I have no idea if they do keep stuff or not. You can only get to the linux stuff by using some arcane hacks further discussed in the Developers' forum.

03-26-2011, 11:50 PM	#6
ritef Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: none	To Piper: Thanks. I have Eraser and it’s good to know I can use it. To JeremyR: I just need to read Word docs converted to PDF—no tables or diagrams and so forth. From what I’ve seen, in many places, the Kindle 3 seems to handle that well, such as what I see in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crgpr1LO7ns If you or anybody feels that would give me trouble though, I’d love to hear about it. (I see 6Charlong notes, “The screen is too small to read PDF image files but it can render PDF text files in a more or less readable form.”) To all: As for my question concerning confidentiality, it’s interesting (and maybe a little alarming) that consumers (Kindle owners—informed ones, in fact) do not seem to know with certainty how invasive Amazon.com might be.

03-27-2011, 05:37 AM	#9
alsaan Enthusiast Posts: 27 Karma: 2000 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Kindle 2 & Kindle 3	Don't trust Eraser too much, it might not be effective if the Kindle uses some kind of wear leveling mechanism.

03-27-2011, 10:19 AM	#11
Xiaopangzi Enthusiast Posts: 30 Karma: 16912 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: kindle oasis 10th gen	Or you could compile the cryptoloop module for the kindle's kernel and have "proper" encryption (aes, blowfish, twofish, etc...). The problem is coming up with a convenient interface to enter the password on the kindle; when ssh'ed into into the kindle mounting an encrypted image works just fine. Confidential data is completely safe after resetting the kindle. Indexing should probably be disabled while an encrypted image is mounted.

03-27-2011, 10:41 AM	#12
abookreader Wizard Posts: 1,516 Karma: 2567610 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD	If your documents truly need to be confidential and you want to use the Kindle - I'd recommend getting the Kindle, registering it, then turning the WiFi/3G off and never turning it back on again. Utilize the USB cable and sideload only. As for the PDF on the 6" Kindle. Not my favorite. Is it possible to save those .doc files as html, then converting that to mobi? I've had much better results with that method than trying to read PDF files on a Kindle.