Amazon: If we released Kindle sales numbers, it would only hurt us

[mikemc2]

I don't see what possible benefit there would be to Amazon in releasing exact sales figures.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by mikemc2

I don't see what possible benefit there would be to Amazon in releasing exact sales figures.

Well yeah, there's always that...

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

HA! What have I been saying for months now! The impressive sales and success that Amazon has bragged about is actually a lie! The only time you don't release numbers is when you have nothing to truly brag about. If they actually did have something to brag about, then they'd be throwing sales numbers all over the place. But in reality, they don't! I'd love to see someone sue Amazon and force them to cough up their real numbers. Because if they did and the numbers got out into the wild, I think Amazon would be quite thoroughly embarrassed.

Guess BN is lying then because they just posted a news release about how awesome the Nook is doing and didn;t include any numbers.

[Grace Elliot]

Also the book ranking system i totally random. Apparently it doesnt the rank doesnt mean anything - so why bother?

[emoorman]

I have yet to figure out how Amazon has harmed me. Let me see. Before I started buying books from them, I could drive 20 mins to Booksamillion or 45 mins to B&N. Sometimes they wouldn't have a new book in or they might be sold out. It also might be raining. I discovered that I could go online and shop Amazon. Buy $25 and you get free shipping. I'd do that and wait 10 days for the books to come in.

At the same time I was reading ebooks from Peanut Press or whoever on my Palm PDA, then Centro, them Win Mobile phone. eReader.com they became, I think. That worked pretty well, but not a really big selection. Still I had to download them to the PC, plug the phone in and cross load to the phone. Not a big deal, but something to do.

I looked at a few dedicated ereaders, but haven't bought one. Then I noticed that I could get the Kindle for PC download for free. I tried it and it worked pretty darn good. I tried a couple of the freebies that Amazon has and it sure was easy. Click and BAM, the book was there, ready to read. Did I need a new account? No. The one I had been using to order paper books was fine. I tried a $6 mystery. Click-BAM. This is too easy. No wasting time. No wasting gas. No waiting. Just click and Ed, old boy, your book is here. Hey, I'm an engineer-I like this.

Then I saw Kindle for Android. Whoa! I have a new Motorola Bravo Android, so I have to try this. Android Marketplace, click, OK, install, open and it says, "Wait while I sync," or something like that. There are my books on my phone. I open the mystery and "Do I want to move to the furtherest point read?" You betcha, I do. Tap, and I'm right where I was on my PC. That is too cool. (Forgive me if my slang is out of date, I'm 73).

Getting back to the original topic, which was on Kindle sales figures. If Amazon says it is their best seller even, why shouldn't I believe them. I personally don't care what the actual figure is. I do know two things. First, check out the numbers on the various forums. The Kindle Forum has the most people by far. Second, if I was an engineer for one of the other ereader companies, I'd tell my program manager that he'd better give me the budget to make our system as easy and as seamless as the Kindle or we need to bail out before we go down the drain. If we aren't going to compete effectively, we are going to lose big time.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

HA! What have I been saying for months now! The impressive sales and success that Amazon has bragged about is actually a lie! The only time you don't release numbers is when you have nothing to truly brag about. If they actually did have something to brag about, then they'd be throwing sales numbers all over the place. But in reality, they don't! I'd love to see someone sue Amazon and force them to cough up their real numbers. Because if they did and the numbers got out into the wild, I think Amazon would be quite thoroughly embarrassed.

A couple of questions:

1) Why would anyone sue over Amazon's Kindle sales numbers? All Amazon has been saying about the numbers is that the Kindle is their best-selling product to date, and that they sell more e-books than paper books now. I suppose it's remotely possible, but do you really think they'd lie about the Kindle being their top seller? More importantly, how could the Kindle not be their top seller? It's on the front page of their site, and part of the navigation menu. You can't really avoid it.

2) Sales numbers can always be parsed. As I've said, I have no doubt at all in my mind that Amazon is #1 in sales of dedicated ereaders, but I don't know how their sales would compare with iPads. That comparison might not be flattering to them. But again, Amazon hasn't said anything that would lead anyone to believe that the Kindle necessarily outsold the iPad.

Now, I'm fairly certain the Kindle outsold the Nook, but as I said earlier, I don't need sales figures for that. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Amazon's site gets more traffic than B&N's.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Marcy

What does it matter? They can say what they want. You can believe what you want. At the end of the day, what is the difference? If you think people are "taken in" by their claims and buy a Kindle as a result, well more power to Amazon and my contempt for the sheeple.

-Marcy

So because you own a Dx, does that make you too a sheeple?

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So because you own a Dx, does that make you too a sheeple?

No. DX owners are clearly people of distinction and intelligence.

[KenJackson]

Originally Posted by Grace Elliot

Also the book ranking system i totally random. Apparently it doesnt the rank doesnt mean anything - so why bother?

Au Contraire!
I just love it when I find a political book that has twenty 5-star ratings and twenty 1-star ratings and nothing in between.

That tells me it is a politically charged book that I will either absolutely love or absolutely hate. As a bonus, when I read the respective comments, I can judge the maturity levels of the respective sides.

Oh wait: "book ranking system". I assumed you meant the customer ratings. But do you mean the Amazon Bestsellers Rank that appears in Product Details? I assume that's based solely on number of books sold. Isn't it?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by KenJackson

Au Contraire!
I just love it when I find a political book that has twenty 5-star ratings and twenty 1-star ratings and nothing in between.

Maybe the author is getting people to give 5-star ratings to try to offset the 1-star ratings. Or maybe the 1-star ratings are the people complaining about the Kindle eBook price.

[OtterBooks]

I'm just baffled at how knowing sales numbers... helps the competition? It's hardly like they can force people to buy their ereaders instead of the Kindle? Er? Tech stuff, I understand. Sales numbers not so much.

Well personally I refuse to buy any product that has not outsold its nearest competitor by 3456773 units or more. So I demand to kno them figures! Not really.

If you're considering launching a product, it often helps to know how much of the market is covered by the competition. You can also watch a competing product's sales growth to analyze what factors have affected that growth, then design your own marketing to take advantage of those factors. Amazon doesn't want to give competitors any info they can use. That sort of secrecy is not uncommon, especially in emerging markets with an unstable and fluctuating playing field.

At least that's the usual reasoning. Whether or not it's justified in this case, who knows.

Does Amazon make any claims outside sales respective to their other products? Have they said "The #1 Ereader in the World!" or anything similar? I've only seen them say it is their bestselling product, in which case the claims of Kindle world domination are mostly coming from speculation in the media.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

HA! What have I been saying for months now! The impressive sales and success that Amazon has bragged about is actually a lie! The only time you don't release numbers is when you have nothing to truly brag about. If they actually did have something to brag about, then they'd be throwing sales numbers all over the place. But in reality, they don't! I'd love to see someone sue Amazon and force them to cough up their real numbers. Because if they did and the numbers got out into the wild, I think Amazon would be quite thoroughly embarrassed.

Wishful thinking.

And no one can sue Amazon to make it produce its actual numbers, although shareholders could, of course, force Amazon to disclose the numbers if they thought it was in their interest to do so. Apparently they don't think so.

It is a crime for a corporation to make a materially misleading statement, so presumably statements like the fact that the K. is Amazon's bestselling product are true, as is the claim that they sold more K3s in 73 days than they did in 2009. So it sounds like they are doing very well. Anecdotally, too, as I know three people who got Kindles for Xmas.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by emoorman

I have yet to figure out how Amazon has harmed me. Let me see. Before I started buying books from them, I could drive 20 mins to Booksamillion or 45 mins to B&N. Sometimes they wouldn't have a new book in or they might be sold out. It also might be raining. I discovered that I could go online and shop Amazon. Buy $25 and you get free shipping. I'd do that and wait 10 days for the books to come in.

Some authors and people involved in publishing think Amazon has too much power. As a consumer, I'm a big fan.

I looked at a few dedicated ereaders, but haven't bought one. Then I noticed that I could get the Kindle for PC download for free. I tried it and it worked pretty darn good. I tried a couple of the freebies that Amazon has and it sure was easy. Click and BAM, the book was there, ready to read. Did I need a new account? No. The one I had been using to order paper books was fine. I tried a $6 mystery. Click-BAM. This is too easy. No wasting time. No wasting gas. No waiting. Just click and Ed, old boy, your book is here. Hey, I'm an engineer-I like this.

Then I saw Kindle for Android. Whoa! I have a new Motorola Bravo Android, so I have to try this. Android Marketplace, click, OK, install, open and it says, "Wait while I sync," or something like that. There are my books on my phone. I open the mystery and "Do I want to move to the furtherest point read?" You betcha, I do. Tap, and I'm right where I was on my PC.

Yeah, part of the Kindle's appeal is not just the hardware itself, but its integration with Amazon and its other apps and programs. Simply focusing on the hardware misses the big picture.

That is too cool. (Forgive me if my slang is out of date, I'm 73).

Right-on, daddy-o!

Sorry, I couldn't help it...

[leebase]

I don't fault Amazon for keeping the sales numbers to themselves. I fault em for trying to get the benefits of crowing about heir sales numbers without sharing the numbers. I am against giving Amazon that benefit, publicity, until they share the numbers.

I think it's great for B&N to tout their sales in the exact same way. We all know that the Nook sales are nowhere near Amazon's, but they can sure make it SOUND like they are doing the same thing Amazon does.

As a tech fan, I want to know the numbers just like I want to know the scores in the sports I follow. So it bugs me

Lee

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Amazon's bestselling product are true, as is the claim that they sold more K3s in 73 days than they did in 2009.

Given that the K3 only came out this year, that's not too hard. But I get what you were shooting at.

So it sounds like they are doing very well. Anecdotally, too, as I know three people who got Kindles for Xmas.

heh. You obviously haven't worked in marketing I take it? Because all you have to do is be 1 number over a previous figure, and with a little twisted wording, you can make it sound like you just sold the entire farm for a kings ransome! Take this for example. If they sold 1000 Kindles last year, and they sold 1001 in a 73 day period this year, that makes it legal to say they sold more. But if you were to actually get your hands on real Kindle sales numbers, I bet you would find that they didn't actually sell all that many overall. Also, consider another little bit of marketing spin:

"The best selling Amazon product ever!"

That one little phrase right there can be twisted so many directions that it's not even funny. First off, the way it's written you automatically assume that they're referring to everything sold on Amazon. But in reality they're very likely saying that of all the product actually produced by Amazon, it's the best selling. Now while the latter is true, a lot of insinuation is made to make you think that it's the best selling product among all the items on Amazon, even though they never said that, and likely won't admit it. So yeah, marketing is all about making the molehill you're selling look like a mountain.

Originally Posted by carld

I don't think the actual numbers matter at all, and all the complaints are just people taking jabs at Amazon because they don't like the company for one reason or another.

That's true of everyone who complains about anything. They only complain if they have a beef against someone, and as leebase so elegantly pointed out. And if you're curious, my beef with Amazon is that they run their company in a very dishonest manner. It's not protectionist or paranoid. It's just outright greedy and dishonest. Having dealt with them behind the scenes, I've seen much of the backstabbing and other nonsense that happens with them. But if you haven't experienced that yet, give it time and you'll eventually run into the dark side of Amazon.

Personally, if it wasn't for the huge number of people who go through them, I'd prefer to have absolutely nothing to do with them. I despise dishonest companies. But sadly, I'm stuck dealing with a lot of them simply because people won't do their homework and vote with their dollars. But that's a whole other story.