Book publishers see their role as gatekeepers shrink

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by tompe

Meanwhile a lot of other books got published because of all the income from the boy wizard books.

Yes, I did notice there was a lot of vampire books these days. Did one of the Harry Potter books feature a vampire or something?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

So... putting Hustler centerfolds on my covers would be a bad idea?

It would if you want to sell them on Amazon

[James_Wilde]

Originally Posted by nashira

Because if ten other publishers though "eh, no." or whatever, it's logical that another could have just as easily thought so, too. It could have not fit their plan, their agenda, their whatever reason they might otherwise take it.

Obviously it wasn't rejected and is hugely successful, but it's hardly a given that it was going to be even published, ever.

Right on, Nashira. And it's even worse if you're pushing a book at agents. Some of them actually ask you to report how many other agents have already seen the book. If ten have rejected it, chances are the eleventh is going to be negatively affected before he starts reading.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

Right on, Nashira. And it's even worse if you're pushing a book at agents. Some of them actually ask you to report how many other agents have already seen the book. If ten have rejected it, chances are the eleventh is going to be negatively affected before he starts reading.

I don't think that's quite the motive. Publishers don't like (and generally won't knowingly read) simultaneous submissions. Agents are likewise. An agent wants to know if other agents are also considering the manuscript. The agent wants to be your exclusive representative. Whether an agent will be less inclined to look at something another agent has passed on will depend upon the agent and the manuscript. It may simply be a case of an agent passing on a manuscript for the same reason a publisher might: it's not the kind of work they handle.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by nashira

That was more luck than the system working. A lot of people, even if they're good writers, might well give up before lucky number eleven.

A liberal quantity of luck is required to get published no matter who you are or what you write. People who got published and achieved best seller status had the luck as well as basic skills.

For every guy playing professionally in the NBA, there are thousands of kids shooting hoops in the playground who think they are good enough to be in the NBA, too. Some of them even are, but without a helping of luck, they'll never get the chance to prove it.

The same goes for writing. There are an enormous number of aspiring writers out there, all competing for a slice of a limited market. They can't all make it. Some years back, SF writer Norman Spinrad opined that there ought to be enough SF magazines to allow everybody writing SF to get published. My thought then was "That's nice. Who will read it?" Now with the Internet and widely available tools, everybody can get "published". I still ask the same question.
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Dennis

[K-Thom]

Sometimes I get the impression that there are already more writers than readers out there ...

[nashira]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

A liberal quantity of luck is required to get published no matter who you are or what you write. People who got published and achieved best seller status had the luck as well as basic skills.

For every guy playing professionally in the NBA, there are thousands of kids shooting hoops in the playground who think they are good enough to be in the NBA, too. Some of them even are, but without a helping of luck, they'll never get the chance to prove it.

The same goes for writing. There are an enormous number of aspiring writers out there, all competing for a slice of a limited market. They can't all make it. Some years back, SF writer Norman Spinrad opined that there ought to be enough SF magazines to allow everybody writing SF to get published. My thought then was "That's nice. Who will read it?" Now with the Internet and widely available tools, everybody can get "published". I still ask the same question.
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Dennis

Absolutely luck is required - but a good book written doesn't mean you'll have it. I understand there are people who prefer big houses because they filter but frankly I've been on the net since I was eleven and there's an even bigger amount of junk on the web than ebooks are likely to aquire for a long time and if I can filter the net for myself (and I don't just let google do it, I sometimes go through pages and pages and pages clicking all sorts of links) then I can decide in short order what books work for me.

If writers are brave enough to put their stuff online for people, free, paid or otherwise. More the power to 'em, it's sort of like walking around without your trousers on.

A publishing house putting out a doesn't even seem to mean proof read sometimes these days, I've found more spelling mistakes in some books than I have found in fanfiction.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by nashira

Absolutely luck is required - but a good book written doesn't mean you'll have it.

I never said it did. Luck is fickle, and quality of work is not a factor. If it was, I can think of some enormously popular works which wouldn't be with us today.

I understand there are people who prefer big houses because they filter but frankly I've been on the net since I was eleven and there's an even bigger amount of junk on the web than ebooks are likely to aquire for a long time and if I can filter the net for myself (and I don't just let google do it, I sometimes go through pages and pages and pages clicking all sorts of links) then I can decide in short order what books work for me.

How well that works depends on what you read.

I prefer big houses not merely because they filter out bad stuff, but because I trust their taste in good stuff.

In fiction, for example, my usual fare is SF and fantasy, and I give preference to stuff published by Baen (a small house, all told) and Tor (part of Holtzbrink, a very big house indeed) because I trust their taste (and probably know the editor who bought the book, too.)

But I read a lot of non-fiction as well. One example on my shelves is the paper volume of David McCullough's _The Path Between the Seas_, a history of the Panama Canal. It won the National Book Award for History and several similar honors. It's a brilliant piece of work. It was also the author's full time job for a couple of years, and happened because a big house (Simon and Schuster) had the resources to fund it and the vision to feel that they should.

You won't see something like that self published.

If writers are brave enough to put their stuff online for people, free, paid or otherwise. More the power to 'em, it's sort of like walking around without your trousers on.

I have no problem with people doing so, and I'm happy the tools are there to permit it. I just worry about the wishful thinking involved in too many cases.

I cheerfully recommend self-publishing to people who just want to write, put it out where people can get it, and are happy if a few people happen to do so. It can also be just the thing for specialized niche market works where there might be a few hundred people in the world who would have any desire to read it.

For anyone hoping to make actual money writing, self publishing is the last approach I'll recommend.

A publishing house putting out a doesn't even seem to mean proof read sometimes these days, I've found more spelling mistakes in some books than I have found in fanfiction.

Unfortunately, that's all too true. Proofreading is a skilled trade, and people who do it expect skilled labor rates. Everyone is trying to cut costs, and paying for such things is one of the steps increasingly omitted to do so.
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Dennis

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

And led to a glut of boy wizard type books being published as everyone tried to cash in on its unexpected success. Meanwhile, lots of other books were rejected because they didn't contain any boy wizards.

Really? How many? Of the 270,000 books published in the US last year, how many of them were about boy wizards? And how many books were rejected solely because they didn't have boy wizards?

If anything, the indies are worse in this regard; there are hundreds of indies writing "paranormal romance" series in the style of Twilight.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Of the 270,000 books published in the US last year, ...

Good gravy!

270,000 in one year! No wonder I feel overwhelmed and experience heart palpitations deciding on my next book.

[Scott Nicholson]

It's very simple to me. Every time Snookie or The Situation or George W. Bush gets a book deal, a hundred real writers head for the soup kitchens. You're welcome to support that if you wish, and if you consider that sort of "gatekeeping" to have value, but I'll be off reading Vicki Tyley, Debbi Mack, William Meikle, and other emerging storytellers for a buck or two a pop.

Scott Nicholson