Will the next booming profession be copy editor?

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

IMHO, the world of writing, editing, and publishing books are changing - and very rapidly. I believe that every writer needs a copyeditor for everything. This includes bloggers (because just because you can write it doesn't mean I can read it) and so, in my belief, this would make James Wilde's business idea very possible. If authors are self publishing with places like Amazon, why not use this business model as well? There are several companies for computer tech (one of which I have used) which have a similar model. The customer pays for a specific service and the rate is smaller than normal.

I know several people who are very good copyeditors who have never wanted to do it as a profession but would gladly use their talents in a part time position that may allow them to make additional money or even possibly stay home.

I can see that this would be a great business model and I can think of several places where James can begin to farm talent.

At the end of the day, the copyeditor can decide to either stay employed by the business (or take her/his newly gained experience elsewhere) and the author will have the benefit of a copyeditor (and now Harry can read their books ) win-win

Such part-time positions already exist. Some pay pitifully, but they still pay more than a percentage of indie authors' profits. There are Web sites where you can bid for jobs, for instance. Again, there's a distinction between someone doing something as a hobby vs. as a living. You can pay hobbyists next to nothing, because they've got something else paying their bills.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

Such part-time positions already exist. Some pay pitifully, but they still pay more than a percentage of indie authors' profits. There are Web sites where you can bid for jobs, for instance. Again, there's a distinction between someone doing something as a hobby vs. as a living. You can pay hobbyists next to nothing, because they've got something else paying their bills.

I can see your point, but I also see potential growth. You're forgetting recent grads who have little experience and we still [US] have large unemployment numbers. I know people with art degrees who can't get decent jobs and could use some published/commissioned work to place in their portfolios. I'm sure more experienced professionals could demand better fees.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I can see your point, but I also see potential growth. You're forgetting recent grads who have little experience and we still [US] have large unemployment numbers. I know people with art degrees who can't get decent jobs and could use some published/commissioned work to place in their portfolios. I'm sure more experienced professionals could demand better fees.

I think you're grasping here. Again, editing should be done by people who actually know how to do the work.

I hire editors. In years past, I've also trained and supervised interns. Intern candidates are the pool that you are talking about. We hire fewer and fewer of those now, because money has shrunk and we don't have time to train them. Without training, they make mistakes that would actually cost us money and credibility.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I can see your point, but I also see potential growth. You're forgetting recent grads who have little experience and we still [US] have large unemployment numbers. I know people with art degrees who can't get decent jobs and could use some published/commissioned work to place in their portfolios. I'm sure more experienced professionals could demand better fees.

Nothing is stopping these people from offering their services and the indie authors from hiring them.

But maybe even these newbies think they should be paid a decent amount of money for their efforts.

[Mortis]

I've worked in the Publishing industry for the past 20 years and I honestly don't understand why there is a problem with the editing/fprmating of e-books, the same files used for the original p-book should be used for the e-book. I can go back through almost 20 years of material and pull out thousands of magazines that would only have to be repackaged to be sold as ebooks.
While I don't work in the book publishing industry, my understanding is that it would be the same; any book in print should have the digital files to create ebooks, it's not like we are stilling using movable type.
I suspect the main reason is that the publishers are trying to save some money and sending the final print out to be scanned rather than digging up the press files, or the publishes are getting their files from someone else, ie off the net? Just a thought.
If someone can explain it, I'm sure I'm not the only one thats curious as to why the formating in ebooks are such garbage (in some cases).

One thing about Editing and Proofreading that seems to have been forgotten is that they both require skill and a very high degree of detail, not to mention English skill (I live in a country where English is a second language, but most business is done in English, no I don't mean Canada!).

By outsourcing editing or proofing to India, for example, publishers are saying they don't care how good their product is, they just want to get the best bottom line. I think it's a shame when you consider 20 years ago proofreading or editing were considered highly skilled jobs and required an apprenticeship of 3-5 years, now anyone with a computer and an internet connection is considered a proofreader.

If I were to tell my clients that I was sending their work over to a non English speaking country to have it proofread or edited, I wouldn't have any clients left in a week.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Mortis

I've worked in the Publishing industry for the past 20 years and I honestly don't understand why there is a problem with the editing/fprmating of e-books, the same files used for the original p-book should be used for the e-book.

We are discussing in this thread copy editing for independently-published eBooks. These are books that have never had paper versions.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

I think you're grasping here.

Maybe we just live in two different economies. I'm watching Target and Wal-Mart offering high school students class credits so they can learn to use a cash register. I know TONS of recent college [English Lit included] who cannot get decent paying jobs and are working to pay off student loans on $10/hour with no health benefits. I know adults in their 40's & 50's that were downsized and now work in places like McDonald's and the mall. I’m sure this trend is occurring in the publishing industry as well.

I do see your point of training and expertise requirements. I have worked with copyeditors in the past and I completely respect their work...but not all copyeditors can demand the same fees nor do all people who want to be copyeditors have the opportunity to break into the business. Considering that we were speaking of Indie authors in great need of this type of work - I can certainly see a recent graduate in need of experience being a good fit for an Indie author who typically wouldn't have the money to pay an editor with 20+ years of experience.

We all have to start somewhere...

Originally Posted by Catlady

Nothing is stopping these people from offering their services and the indie authors from hiring them.

But maybe even these newbies think they should be paid a decent amount of money for their efforts.

I believe everyone thinks they should be paid a decent amount of money for their efforts. It’s not regulated to the publishing field. But did you know that a typical BFA student graduating with a $100k loan typically makes about $26k - $31k a year? A starting copyeditor only makes about USD$31k a year. That’s roughly $600 a week before taxes. It’s certainly a lot less than $50/hr.

No one has established a pay scale for this fictional business/site we’re discussing – I’m just saying that the model does have growth potential.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

We are discussing in this thread copy editing for independently-published eBooks. These are books that have never had paper versions.

Even books that have/had paper versions do not necessarily have electronic files available. Many publishers hire outsiders to take Microsoft Word files and "typeset" them electronically in programs like InDesign. These outsiders then forward to the publisher a PDF file, which is transmitted to the printer. In the mean time, the InDesign files are kept by the "typesetter" and eventually discarded.

Another problem is that the typesetting program used 10 years ago may no longer exist, so having the electronic files may be meaningless.

[Mortis]

Originally Posted by HarryT

We are discussing in this thread copy editing for independently-published eBooks. These are books that have never had paper versions.

So how do the authors submit the final "Book" in these cases, if on paper, it still needs to be input to a digital format.
If the work is independently-published, wouldn't the author do the editing and proofing or would they hire someone to do it?

Genuinely curious

[HarryT]

These are books which are sold only as eBooks. There is no paper version. They are sold via digital publishing sites such as Amazon or Smashwords, to both of which the file is uploaded electronically.

Unfortunately most such books are not edited in any way whatsoever at present - that's been the purpose of what we're discussing here. How can independent authors gain reasonably-priced access to copy editors?

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by Mortis

So how do the authors submit the final "Book" in these cases, if on paper, it still needs to be input to a digital format.
If the work is independently-published, wouldn't the author do the editing and proofing or would they hire someone to do it?

Genuinely curious

In theory, yes.

However, not all indie authors believe in the value of editing. Some are at an early point in their career and have not yet developed the skills to edit themselves, and some have "golden word syndrome," and don't think anyone else has any right to make any changes or even suggest any changes to their work.

(Commercially published authors usually have the syndrome beaten out of them unless they make the publisher an awful lot of money.)

Some readers don't see the value of editing either, and think it's an unnecessary cost for ebooks that does nothing but inflate the price.

[Maggie Leung]

MrsJoseph, as I mentioned earlier, people (whether qualified or not) are free to bid for jobs on various Web sites and such. There's nothing stopping people from offering their services for next to nothing. The question is whether even indie authors value their services enough to pay, and whether jobless people would be willing to work for what an indie author could offer.

Obviously there are plenty of unemployed people. Their need does not mean that indie authors will rush to hire them. There's nothing stopping you or anyone else who supports the business model you propose from starting a business. All you have to do is persuade indies to pay and jobless to apply.

[Mortis]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Commercially published authors usually have the syndrome beaten out of them unless they make the publisher an awful lot of money.

I have never beaten anyone, that didn't deserve it!

Seriously, my experience with authors directly is very limited, sorry to hijack the thread.

[Mel Comley]

After I had my book edited by a professional I learnt such a lot from my editor that I then went on to help another 6 authors tweak their MS on a well-known writer's site.

I really enjoyed the process but I didn't charge the authors anything and I always told them to take or leave my advice. I'm glad to say that all of them took it! ;-)

Mel

[greencat]

I don't think the next booming profession will be copy editor as companies are looking at reducing the rates they want to pay for many of the reasons outlined above.

It is also fairly difficult work requiring lots of concentration. Sadly it is not the kind of job where you can goof off for a few hours and no-one will notice.

I can see a rise in hobbyist copy editors/proofers. Basically these will be people who might have read your book anyway and in exchange for a credit/small sum/free copy/early access will spot the glaring stuff. Perhaps the 80/20 rule might start to apply - ie if most of your amateurs don't spot the error then most of the population won't either. Books might go through beta cycles - pay a dollar for a uncorrected version and get it now or a five when it's complete. Indie authors/small publishers with small dedicated followings might well start taking advantage of this kind of crowdsourcing.

Outsourcing overseas? Often local English is significantly different than British or US English. I think increasing software based automation is likely though.