How can we convince Amazon to sell ePub format? - Page 11

david_e · 12-20-2010, 11:20 AM

Once everyone who will buy a Kindle HAS bought a Kindle, and there is no other way to increase ebook revenue except to open up to other devices, then they will make the move.

queentess · 12-20-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Kindle and Amazon control over 80% of the ebook market. By proper definition that's considered a monopoly. You don't have to own everything to be a monopoly. You just have to own a significant majority, namely 80% or more.

80%? Maybe in the U.S.? I find it hard to believe they have 80% of Europe when the predominant standard over there is ePub.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Kindle owners tend to be like Apple fanboys. They're only pleased with their devices because they don't realize that there's something better out there, don't wish to know, and Amazon is making sure they never do. IE, blissful ignorance.

Nah. I've had several ereading devices. The Kindle is, far and away, my favorite. It's the design that does it for me - I love the feel of the Kindle in my hands, the page turns are natural and fast, I like the keyboard (I know some people don't), and I love the wireless. But hey, thanks for calling all Kindle owners ignorant. That was very helpful.

queentess · 12-20-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenJackson

YES!

It's frustrating that when this issue is raised, Kindle users misdirect it into a discussion about the Kindle supporting epub.
But that's not the issue!

The issue--as the the thread title suggests, and your comment acknowledges--is to get Amazon to allow non-Kindle users to buy books too.

Yep! That's the issue exactly! I anticipate it'll happen eventually, as Amazon seems to be taking the iTunes route to success. I can see them eventually opening up either their format or selling other formats to users with other devices. Amazon is, after all, primarily a bookseller, not a hardware manufacturer. I have to believe - though I could be wrong - that they make most of their long-term profit from the books, not the devices, so it's in their best interest to sell to as many people as possible.

I also have high hopes that, like iTunes, Amazon will eventually do away with drm...

Andrew H. · 12-20-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

That takes just a few minutes. After that, it's adios brick & mortar library.

You can drive 400 miles in a few minutes?

tubemonkey · 12-20-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

You can drive 400 miles in a few minutes?

Your response didn't specify a library.

queentess · 12-20-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

You can drive 400 miles in a few minutes?

Yeah, a 400mi drive for a library card would be out of the question for me, unless I had another compelling reason to visit the area. And that's only if they allow cards for non-residents (some places do not). I tried to get a card from the Columbus (Ohio) library system, but when I received the card in the mail it said that I have to show up in person with a photo id in order to activate the card. What! That's only 160mi from me, but that's a 3 hour one-way trip!

ReginaR · 12-20-2010, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Library books.

I believe we need to put pressure on Overdrive to make the formats of ebooks accessible to Kindle. Overdrive is shutting out Kindle owners.

DMB · 12-20-2010, 05:45 PM

I am a relative novice since the K3 is my first ereader. I had thought of getting some sort of ereader for a while and what decided me was the K3's low price. In addition, I am a regular Amazon customer for pbooks, so it kept things simple.

But what has really disappointed me is how few of the books I want to read are available in any e-format. I guess it is made worse by the geographic restrictions. And yet, I don't even understand them completely. I have always been able to buy books from amazon.com and amazon.co.uk and have even bought the same book from the two sites when it has had different publishers on either side of the Pond. So why this much more strict enforcement when it comes to ebooks?

In the short time I have had a Kindle, I am hooked on ebooks. I just wish publishers would issue more in e-format -- any e-format.

SciFiGal777 · 12-21-2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

The Kindle is, far and away, my favorite. It's the design that does it for me - I love the feel of the Kindle in my hands, the page turns are natural and fast, I like the keyboard (I know some people don't), and I love the wireless.

This is exactly how I feel. I like the Kindle hardware best. I wish I could have the hardware of the Kindle with the epub format so I could borrow library books. I'm not a big fan of the .mobi format. But I can't stand the design of competing ereaders.

While I do use the Kindle to read books, I also use it to proofread/read my own work (I'm an author) as it's easier than staring at an LCD screen. I also like to take it with me along with old fashioned paper and pencil to reference my work if I want to write while I travel, but not take my laptop with me. The personal document email feature and the keyboard are a must.

tubemonkey · 12-21-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReginaR

I believe we need to put pressure on Overdrive to make the formats of ebooks accessible to Kindle. Overdrive is shutting out Kindle owners.

Put the pressure on Amazon. They're the problem.

Adding another format will just increase subscriber fees from OverDrive. Libraries are already strapped for cash and don't need additional expenses.

mdarnton · 12-22-2010, 12:27 AM

I haven't read every post in this thread, so I don't know if anyone has pointed out the obvious: DRMed .aac files were fine for iTunes at the beginning. Apple had no reason to sell MP3s because the iPod ruled, and everyone else could take it or shove it. That worked for a while, but guess what, iTunes sells MP3s now.

That's because in the long run, the concept of DRM on a controlled-access machines is a dead idea. It will be OK for a while, but Amazon, who no longer sells the only eReader in the world, is going to have to change their marketing model, or competition will end it for them. This whole cycle has been done before by music, and Kindle is old, not smart.

I bought a Nook Color.

markbot · 12-22-2010, 12:39 AM

If I were amazon, I definitely wouldn't sell epub. Their user base is the largest and growing. they should try to lock these people into their ecosystem. if they allow epub it means that their customers can buy books from other vendors book stores and other vendor devices can buy their books. let's say amazon makes most of their money on the device....there will be some OEM that undersells them...thus it will prevent amazon from making a profit. It will also mean that their user base can shop around for the best price for an ebook. currently, they can't do that unless they have another device.

Clearly it is not in the best interest of Amazon to go epub. if amazon competed on making the best device possible like sony and apple would...with all the latest tech...then it makes sense perhaps. they would want to sell as many devices as possible. this is not how they compete though.

KenJackson · 12-22-2010, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

if they allow epub it means that their customers can buy books from other vendors book stores ...

NO! There are two different things. I'm requesting they sell epubs for non-Kindle customers. That wouldn't necessarily need to enable the Kindle to read epubs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

let's say amazon makes most of their money on the device....

I doubt very much that they are making any money on the sale of Kindles. I think they want everyone to have one so they are locked in, so they sell them cheap.

Kitabi · 12-22-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbot

If I were amazon, I definitely wouldn't sell epub. Their user base is the largest and growing. they should try to lock these people into their ecosystem. if they allow epub it means that their customers can buy books from other vendors book stores and other vendor devices can buy their books. let's say amazon makes most of their money on the device....there will be some OEM that undersells them...thus it will prevent amazon from making a profit. It will also mean that their user base can shop around for the best price for an ebook. currently, they can't do that unless they have another device.

Clearly it is not in the best interest of Amazon to go epub. if amazon competed on making the best device possible like sony and apple would...with all the latest tech...then it makes sense perhaps. they would want to sell as many devices as possible. this is not how they compete though.

I could easily understand this if it were another book seller. However, we are talking Amazon. Why would an Amazon customer want to shop elsewhere? Amazon customers on MR have repeatedly said that they cannot find a cheaper or bigger source of books. On top of this, the Agency 5 have ensured that for a large number of books, prices would be the same anywhere you buy. Amazon's customer service is top notch. Their store experience is very good. They are constantly improving their software and hardware and are among the best in both categories.

IMHO, Amazon simply does not need the format restriction crutch to drive business. In fact, if they side with customers on the format and DRM issues, they would further win goodwill. In the face of all this, Amazon's insistence on proprietary is bewildering to many, including me.

asjogren · 12-22-2010, 12:45 PM

Having both a Kindle 2 and a PocketBook IQ - and my partner has a Nook - here are a few of our views:
- being locked into Amazon and non-DRM for purchased books is no irritant. They have what appears to be as big, if not bigger, selection. The prices are as low, if not lower. And the buying process is streamlined.
- the Kindle as a reading device, beats both the Nook and the PocketBook IQ. The Kindle's battery lasts 2 or 3 times the Nook.

THE issue for us is Overdrive public library books. It is exactly the reason my partner has the Nook instead of us sharing an Amazon account with 2 Kindles. It is exactly why I bought a second eReader. And it is THE reason I will not buy another Kindle once mine dies - unless.

The advantages of ePub over Mobi seem minor. How a particular publisher implements a book in the particular format is more important.

When people ask me about eReaders, my first question is about their use of the public library. If they use the public library more than just a little, I recommend AGAINST Kindle.

All that changes IFF Amazon and Overdrive come up with a reasonable way to use the Kindle for most of the public library eBooks.

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12-20-2010, 11:20 AM	#151
david_e Seriously? Posts: 529 Karma: 3347562 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kobo Aura HD, Kobo Mini, iWhatever	Once everyone who will buy a Kindle HAS bought a Kindle, and there is no other way to increase ebook revenue except to open up to other devices, then they will make the move.

12-20-2010, 05:45 PM	#158
DMB Old Git Posts: 958 Karma: 1840790 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Switzerland (mostly) Device: Two kindle PWs wifi, kindle fire, iPad3 wifi	I am a relative novice since the K3 is my first ereader. I had thought of getting some sort of ereader for a while and what decided me was the K3's low price. In addition, I am a regular Amazon customer for pbooks, so it kept things simple. But what has really disappointed me is how few of the books I want to read are available in any e-format. I guess it is made worse by the geographic restrictions. And yet, I don't even understand them completely. I have always been able to buy books from amazon.com and amazon.co.uk and have even bought the same book from the two sites when it has had different publishers on either side of the Pond. So why this much more strict enforcement when it comes to ebooks? In the short time I have had a Kindle, I am hooked on ebooks. I just wish publishers would issue more in e-format -- any e-format.

12-22-2010, 12:27 AM	#161
mdarnton Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Nook Color	I haven't read every post in this thread, so I don't know if anyone has pointed out the obvious: DRMed .aac files were fine for iTunes at the beginning. Apple had no reason to sell MP3s because the iPod ruled, and everyone else could take it or shove it. That worked for a while, but guess what, iTunes sells MP3s now. That's because in the long run, the concept of DRM on a controlled-access machines is a dead idea. It will be OK for a while, but Amazon, who no longer sells the only eReader in the world, is going to have to change their marketing model, or competition will end it for them. This whole cycle has been done before by music, and Kindle is old, not smart. I bought a Nook Color.

12-22-2010, 12:39 AM	#162
markbot Guru Posts: 612 Karma: 7511929 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New York, NY Device: Amazon Kindle Paperwhite 2	If I were amazon, I definitely wouldn't sell epub. Their user base is the largest and growing. they should try to lock these people into their ecosystem. if they allow epub it means that their customers can buy books from other vendors book stores and other vendor devices can buy their books. let's say amazon makes most of their money on the device....there will be some OEM that undersells them...thus it will prevent amazon from making a profit. It will also mean that their user base can shop around for the best price for an ebook. currently, they can't do that unless they have another device. Clearly it is not in the best interest of Amazon to go epub. if amazon competed on making the best device possible like sony and apple would...with all the latest tech...then it makes sense perhaps. they would want to sell as many devices as possible. this is not how they compete though.

12-22-2010, 12:45 PM	#165
asjogren Addict Posts: 266 Karma: 1378 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Seattle / San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico Device: Kindle & WiFi Nook & PocketBook IQ	Having both a Kindle 2 and a PocketBook IQ - and my partner has a Nook - here are a few of our views: - being locked into Amazon and non-DRM for purchased books is no irritant. They have what appears to be as big, if not bigger, selection. The prices are as low, if not lower. And the buying process is streamlined. - the Kindle as a reading device, beats both the Nook and the PocketBook IQ. The Kindle's battery lasts 2 or 3 times the Nook. THE issue for us is Overdrive public library books. It is exactly the reason my partner has the Nook instead of us sharing an Amazon account with 2 Kindles. It is exactly why I bought a second eReader. And it is THE reason I will not buy another Kindle once mine dies - unless. The advantages of ePub over Mobi seem minor. How a particular publisher implements a book in the particular format is more important. When people ask me about eReaders, my first question is about their use of the public library. If they use the public library more than just a little, I recommend AGAINST Kindle. All that changes IFF Amazon and Overdrive come up with a reasonable way to use the Kindle for most of the public library eBooks.