Birth of a Black Hole

[kennyc]

Scientists witness apparent black hole birth

By Marc Kaufman Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 16, 2010

For the first time, scientists believe they have witnessed the birth of a black hole.

The evidence began arriving 30 years ago from a star 50 million light-years away that had imploded, setting into motion events that created a region where gravity is so great that nothing can escape, even light.

...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111506784.html

[GlenBarrington]

Who was it that said, "The universe is stranger than we can imagine"? I know it wasn't me, so it has to be some other smart good looking person.

[kennyc]

Not only stranger than we imagine, but stranger than we can imagine....

More at:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/J._B._S._Haldane

[thrawn_aj]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Not only stranger than we imagine, but stranger than we can imagine....

The latter half of that statement is meaningless (with all due respect to Haldane). It (the idea that we are more intelligent and imaginative than our descendants could ever be) is geriatric arrogance plain and simple and usually occurs when really smart people reach the end of their lives knowing there's so much more to be discovered.

Mind you, I'm not saying it is wrong (i.e. that its negation is correct) - just meaningless one way or the other.

The idea of the "unknowable" is likewise meaningless (not even wrong).

//pet peeve

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by thrawn_aj

The latter half of that statement is meaningless (with all due respect to Haldane). It (the idea that we are more intelligent and imaginative than our descendants could ever be) is geriatric arrogance plain and simple and usually occurs when really smart people reach the end of their lives knowing there's so much more to be discovered.

Mind you, I'm not saying it is wrong (i.e. that its negation is correct) - just meaningless one way or the other.

The idea of the "unknowable" is likewise meaningless (not even wrong).

//pet peeve

You are welcome to analyze it and interpret it as you will. I love it myself as do many others.

You need to embrace the poet in you methinks.

If that doesn't work think of bigger infinities.

[thrawn_aj]

Originally Posted by kennyc

You are welcome to analyze it and interpret it as you will. I love it myself as do many others.

You need to embrace the poet in you methinks.

If that doesn't work think of bigger infinities.

Fair 'nuff Kenny. (By the way, thanks for the black hole story. I hadn't seen it yet. Fascinating!)

As a piece of poetry, it is quite impressive. Of course, meaning is not a necessary part of poetry . That's the only aspect I was criticizing .

By the way, I've since reconsidered my (harsh) position. I could actually agree to some extent with Haldane - but only if I used some italics thus:

"Not only stranger than we imagine, but stranger than we can imagine...."

That should satisfy us both eh? I'm quite willing to admit the limits of my own imagination, but I've seen too many bonafide geniuses in my life to feel pessimistic about humanity's ability to someday understand it all.

As for bigger infinities, I agree . In fact, Cantor's transfinite numbers were part of the inspiration for me to embrace science as a profession (I suspect that's what you had in mind ).

Apropos of nothing (just a random thought) - have you seen the visual proof for why the cardinality of real numbers is greater than that of the natural numbers? Probably one of the most profound things I've encountered in my entire life. Popped my intellectual cherry on that one . The fact that you could prove such a seemingly metaphysical statement was what charmed me so much.

That's also the day that philosophers and mystics who harped on about infinity ceased to impress me - because I could see that they had all missed saying anything substantial about it. It was a mathematician who finally tamed infinity and changed it from mystical nonsense into rigorous mathematics you could touch with your mind - the Prometheus of our time.

Ages later, I leaned that some very important theorems in Fourier analysis rely on this strange fact. In fact, anytime people use infinite polynomial expansions to solve differential equations (and declare Linear Independence - a diff.eq. in-joke - my apologies ), they are making use of this exotic (almost philosophical) statement about numbers - that never ceases to amaze me .

[GlenBarrington]

Originally Posted by thrawn_aj

. . . I'm quite willing to admit the limits of my own imagination, but I've seen too many bonafide geniuses in my life to feel pessimistic about humanity's ability to someday understand it all.

I don't know, every time we think we (as a race, not me specifically!) begin to think we understand a piece of the puzzle, we seem to discover that the puzzle is more complex than we thought.

I prefer to think that God is out there, somewhere, working feverishly trying to stump us!

[Seanette]

Originally Posted by GlenBarrington

I don't know, every time we think we (as a race, not me specifically!) begin to think we understand a piece of the puzzle, we seem to discover that the puzzle is more complex than we thought.

I prefer to think that God is out there, somewhere, working feverishly trying to stump us!

I figure God has to have a sense of humor. The platypus alone proves it.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Seanette

I figure God has to have a sense of humor. The platypus alone proves it.

and this: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=107213