Amazon Defends Pedophile Book

[rogue_red]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Where do we draw the line in "further harming the victim", though? For example, I'm going to pick on brecklundin a bit here: his avatar is the cover of one of John Normal's "Gor" novels. If you've never read them, the basic premise of the books is that sexual slavery is the natural condition of women (and occasionally the females of other species), and no matter how much they resist, they will be happier (and make badly-written speeches on the subject, apparently) when suitably raped and subjugated. And he's written book after book detailing this. I know several women who, after having been raped, find the "Gor" novels utterly horrifying -- in one case, shaking if the books are even mentioned. I should mention, by the way, that they lived in a country where rape, especially the stranger rape so lovingly detailed and endlessly justified by Norman, is quite illegal. So ... are those books "further harming the victim"?

Again, we're dealing with one of those lines. Who is a victim? What constitutes further harming them? And who decides?

By the way, if you want a good feel for the writing of the Gor novels without actually having to read one, I strongly recommend the parody "Houseplants of Gor". Or, for that matter, if you have read them. Aside from getting John Norman's literary voice dead-on (yes, he is that stilted) it's a side-splittingly funny parody.

I dont understand how those books are a problem. The women must have already read the books prior to their rapes because it seems like madness to go read something like that after a rape.

When I was 17 I lost my virginity by rape to a drunk drugged up neighbour. He broke a window and climbed into my house while I was in the bath. He beat, bite, and raped me for 12 hours. For years afterwards the smell of alcohol (especially on someones skin when they've drunk a lot) would make me throw up or pee myself. I don't expect drinking to be made illegal because drunks freak me out. I dont expect beer to suddenly only be available sheathed in a brown paper bag so as to avoid further harm to me.
I am an adult. I made the choice to actively participate in recovery from abuse. I stopped allowing monsters to hide under my bed.

Children are unable to protect themselves, either from the people who seek to hurt them or the tools they use to further their cause. It is they we must protect.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by rogue_red

I dont understand how those books are a problem. The women must have already read the books prior to their rapes because it seems like madness to go read something like that after a rape.

Sometimes people don't know what the books are. Sometimes it's just someone who won't shut up about them. There are always rumblings about a movie; the thought of the trailers makes my skin crawl.

Where does the cut-off come in, though? I'll use the generic "Bad Thing" here to de-emotionalize this a bit: If a Bad Thing happens to an adult, you're saying that we don't need to prohibit books about that Bad Thing because the adult is capable of self-protection. Likewise, you say that if a Bad Thing happens to a child, we shouldn't expose that child to further examples of the Bad Thing. But what about if a Bad Thing happened to a child who is now an adult? Are they treated, in this case, as an adult or a child?

Inside every problem is a bigger problem struggling to get out.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by 44Dave

The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

Stole this for the Quotes Thread. https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=882

Thank You!

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by PhishStyx

Uhm. No. I hope that I understand what you're saying is that none of the characteristics of D&D players turned out to be true, but in fact even that "small percentage" was only a single person in reality.

Im not speaking of the Mazes and Monsters kid, there were 2 deaths in my area of PA that were also "linked" to playing D&D.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by JLeighs

Financially, it was an incredibly stupid move on the part of Amazon to allow this book to be purchased for as long as they did.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

A lot of people will not be doing business with Amazon any longer. So from a business standpoint it was a bad idea to sell it.

The cynic in me says that they knew exactly what they were doing and they made a boat load of money from it. Even if it only sold a few thousand copies, a few thousand dollars profit in under a day for a single book is pretty good.

[abookreader]

nah. Amazon has a yearly revenue of around $24billion. A couple thousand bucks means less to them than the 53cents I have rolling around in the bottom of my purse does to me.

What is important to them here is their policy and public opinion of whether or not they are doing the right thing.

[kennyc]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/11...return-amazon/

...
Meanwhile, consumers searching for other pedophilia-related titles will not suffer from a shortage of material, a quick search reveals.

Titles like "Diary of a Pedophile," "Father Pedophile," "The 'Pedophile' Sham: Undermining the Torah Matrix" and "Fun With Pedophiles, The Best of Baiting" were readily available on Borders.com, BarnesandNoble.com or Amazon.com as of early Thursday, less than a day after Amazon apparently removed Greaves' title.

....

This is of course all over the media or the media is all over it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=pedop...ient=firefox-a

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by kennyc

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/11...return-amazon/

...
Meanwhile, consumers searching for other pedophilia-related titles will not suffer from a shortage of material, a quick search reveals.

Titles like "Diary of a Pedophile," "Father Pedophile," "The 'Pedophile' Sham: Undermining the Torah Matrix" and "Fun With Pedophiles, The Best of Baiting" were readily available on Borders.com, BarnesandNoble.com or Amazon.com as of early Thursday, less than a day after Amazon apparently removed Greaves' title.

....

This is of course all over the media or the media is all over it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=pedop...ient=firefox-a

who knew!?

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

who knew!?

Are you being serious?

Certainly attention is being focused as a result of this. We may be in for some changes. ....

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Are you being serious?

Certainly attention is being focused as a result of this. We may be in for some changes. ....

yeeah I am. first of all it never occurred to me that such a list could be so... extensive, and second, how the Torah would get involved

[44Dave]

Collective: Confessions of a pedophile Web filtering the impossible

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Has everyone here gone nuts?

SEXUAL PENETRATION OF A CHILD OR BABY BY AN ADULT MALE.

PICTURE IT!!!!!

THATS what this books is about. How do you compare this with anything else?

This is what the blurb says:

This is my attempt to make pedophile situations safer for those juveniles that find themselves involved in them, by establishing certain rules for these adults to follow.

That reads to me more like the how to commit suicide type books than anything else. If it is something you are going to do, you will do less harm by following the advice than just going out and doing it without any real idea of what you are doing.

[thrawn_aj]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

b*****t

We're talking a book that promotes sexual penetration of babies and children.

By an adult male.

And THEN suggests a light sentence for perpetrators.


If you aren't outraged by this......if you can't see the difference between something that "offends" and something that is totally unacceptable, you are part of the problem.

Agreed. And it goes back to what I've said before about free speech. They may have the right to publish such filth. Amazon has the right to refuse to sell it. The customers have the right to do what they can (legally) to drive the publisher and author out of business.

No one has the right to force someone to read, sell or promote something they don't want to - THAT would be coercion.

[recluse]

Originally Posted by 44Dave

The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

I'm sorry, but could you repost this?
I can't read gibberish.

I thought my response was reasonable, given the suggestion in Kenny's post that I am a right wing zealot because I don't believe that monsters who rape and kill babies have rights.

You keep shunting the idea that these creatures shouldn't be allowed to have a voice into an all out attack against freedom of speech.
I am not calling for censorship.
That is not the issue.
I am asking for a little common sense.
Child molestors give nothing back to society.
They take innocence, and lives.
They act on their thoughts without control, without fear.
They never stop.

They are the human equivalent of rabid rats.

If you can't stand up to them for fear of losing something else sometime down the line, what does that say about you as an empathic, enlightened human being?

Right now, children are suffering an unspeakable nightmare at the hands of these creatures.
And you are letting it happen.

[44Dave]

Originally Posted by recluse

I'm sorry, but could you repost this?
I can't read gibberish.

I thought my response was reasonable, given the suggestion in Kenny's post that I am a right wing zealot because I don't believe that monsters who rape and kill babies have rights.

You keep shunting the idea that these creatures shouldn't be allowed to have a voice into an all out attack against freedom of speech.
I am not calling for censorship.
That is not the issue.
I am asking for a little common sense.
Child molestors give nothing back to society.
They take innocence, and lives.
They act on their thoughts without control, without fear.
They never stop.

They are the human equivalent of rabid rats.

If you can't stand up to them for fear of losing something else sometime down the line, what does that say about you as an empathic, enlightened human being?

Right now, children are suffering an unspeakable nightmare at the hands of these creatures.
And you are letting it happen.

Right now, millions of adults, children, and babies are suffering genocidal attacks because someone decided that people like them didn't have rights. And you are not only letting it happen, you are cheering it on.