Attention nook owners, and others. Ereaders, like computers, need back-ups.

SameOldStory · 11-01-2010, 11:48 AM

Yet Another Reminder That You Don't Own Your Ebooks: B&N Nook Deletes Files, Blames User

This is not another story like the one where Amazon deleted 1984 from the kindle. This is about treating ereaders as paper books where the info in them will not disappear.

The guy is blaming B&N. And while there's a little validity to his rant, it's like crying "I didn't know that I had to back up my computer".

Removing DRM would be the first step. Copying the files off your computer would be the next step. After all, you have to protect against loosing your data and your reader.

abookreader · 11-01-2010, 12:08 PM

Well - yeah everybody back-up your files. And then back-up your back-ups.
But he's pissed because he lost his personal files in a crash? Does he honestly think that Barnes and Noble is keeping a back-up of his personal documents? If so, he's an idiot.

Could you imagine that absolute outrage that would rain down on any of these retailers if it was discovered they were grabbing copies of personal documents off of the reading devices and storing them on their servers? That would be a massive invasion of privacy.

murraypaul · 11-01-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abookreader

Well - yeah everybody back-up your files. And then back-up your back-ups.
But he's pissed because he lost his personal files in a crash? Does he honestly think that Barnes and Noble is keeping a back-up of his personal documents? If so, he's an idiot.

It wasn't a crash, it was an update being applied. There is a difference between something going wrong, and a known outcome of a proceedure.
If he is pissed because the B&N update intentionally wiped all his files without warning him first, then he has every right to be pissed. Of course we don't have enough info to know if this is really the case, we only have his side of the story.
Or would you be fine if the next Windows update formats your hard drive? You are backing your computer up, right?
(Assuming you are a windows user, insert correction otherwise)

yakuzaboss · 11-01-2010, 12:34 PM

I always have multiple backups of my collection of ebooks: on different drives on my laptop and desktop, on a couple of usb drives and an external drive. It doesn't take any time at all to do it.

SameOldStory · 11-01-2010, 12:34 PM

The legitimacy to his complaint is in B&N not warning everybody that you have to update frequently. Not having a nook I can only assume that they didn't. Or that he didn't pay attention to the notice.

Has any nook owner been warned of this possibility before?

Does B&N state that you can pickup reading your ebook on your nook, computer, or cell phone? If so he might have thought that they kept track of all the books on his nook. Naive, but possible.

On the other hand, abookreader, is right, the world would come to an end if B&N did that.

ShortNCuddlyAm · 11-01-2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Or would you be fine if the next Windows update formats your hard drive? You are backing your computer up, right?
(Assuming you are a windows user, insert correction otherwise)

Experience - mine and others - has taught me to make sure I have back ups of data before I do an upgrade. Unfortunately, not every update goes smoothly for every person, and they can lead to completely borked machines (phones, readers, PCs, servers (

) etc)

tubemonkey · 11-01-2010, 12:58 PM

The only things of value on my computer are my bookmarks and folders. So I back those up about twice a week, using a USB thumb drive.

macminer · 11-01-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abookreader

Well - yeah everybody back-up your files. And then back-up your back-ups.
But he's pissed because he lost his personal files in a crash? Does he honestly think that Barnes and Noble is keeping a back-up of his personal documents? If so, he's an idiot.
.

No, he has every right to believe that an update (and the one that he hasn't even initiated - it was BN's system that did so) won't erase everything off his device. There is no reason it should. Do you expect the Windows updates that appear every week or so will erase your whole hard disk? Would you not be pissed off if they did? And that's what his situation amounts to. He had files on his personal device and an outside-initiated update program decided all the files had to be deleted.

In fact, even when there are upgrade programs which require a complete memory erase (this often happens with firmware upgrade), they always give you a warning and advice to back up all your data. This was true with every mobile device I was updating - be it a mp3 player, PDA or a mobile phone. If Nook does not give this warning, then its programmers must have been particularly brainless.

Moreover - many mobile devices have their own backup schemes, usually backing up all your important data automatically every time you connect them to the PC. This is and "old-school" routine (Windows Mobile, Palm OS etc.), while the "new-school" devices (Android etc.) usually offer some form of online backup. If Nook doesn't offer such scheme, this is another reason to suspect the programmers of being brainless...

desertgrandma · 11-01-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

Yet Another Reminder That You Don't Own Your Ebooks: B&N Nook Deletes Files, Blames User

This is not another story like the one where Amazon deleted 1984 from the kindle. This is about treating ereaders as paper books where the info in them will not disappear.

The guy is blaming B&N. And while there's a little validity to his rant, it's like crying "I didn't know that I had to back up my computer".

Removing DRM would be the first step. Copying the files off your computer would be the next step. After all, you have to protect against loosing your data and your reader.

Thank you. Well said.

SameOldStory · 11-01-2010, 02:33 PM

Thanks DG.

For what it matters, the early days of Windows were pretty bad as far as updates went. It had gotten so bad that I would wait about a month before doing an update. XP was the first good version. I never had problems from then on.

Correction. I totally skipped Windows Bob and Windows ME.

desertgrandma · 11-01-2010, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

Thanks DG.

For what it matters, the early days of Windows were pretty bad as far as updates went. It had gotten so bad that I would wait about a month before doing an update. XP was the first good version. I never had problems from then on.

Correction. I totally skipped Windows Bob and Windows ME.

I still have XP on my netbook. Didn't have a choice when i bought the laptop.....XP wasn't an option.

But, to get back OT........I think its our own responsibility to back up our books, and if that means liberating them, so be it.

Seriously, you cannot depend on, or expect anyone else to look out for you.....

Fbone · 11-01-2010, 02:46 PM

I believe this story was also posted on the B&N boards and Doug commented that this gentleman's nook was defective from time of purchase. Evidently, there were a few nooks that for reason unknown automatically did a factory reset which brought it back to 1.0 firmware. The nook then automatically updated to 1.4 as programmed.

The data loss occurred when the nook defectively did the reset ... not ... the upgrade.

jhempel24 · 11-01-2010, 03:18 PM

This is the reason I strip DRM on all my books. That way if they wipe it, I can just get it back from Calibre or otherwise...and if he bought the books from B&N, wouldn't he be able to just download them again?? But I have a perfectly working nook, so I wouldn't expect to happen to mine anyway.

SameOldStory · 11-01-2010, 04:37 PM

Thanks, Fbone.

He was able to get the B&N books back on the nook. But he, apparently had other books and documents that were either inconvenient to retrieve or, more likely, he couldn't remember the names and places of purchase. He should’ve used Calibre.

One of my worries last Christmas, and this Christmas too, was all the companies trying to get anything out the door. I do want a tablet, but may just wait until after the rush.

abookreader · 11-01-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Or would you be fine if the next Windows update formats your hard drive? You are backing your computer up, right?
(Assuming you are a windows user, insert correction otherwise)

After years of lessons learned the hard way - yes I back up every computer in this house. To an external hard drive nightly and then to an online back-up service. And I back up our iPods and iPhones etc etc etc

Updates run wildly bad all the time. That isn't nook specific, it happens to every device that gets firmware updates.

In this case it was an update gone wrong. He could have just as easily lost those documents by a lost/stolen nook or a spilled drink.

11-01-2010, 11:48 AM	#1
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	Attention nook owners, and others. Ereaders, like computers, need back-ups. Yet Another Reminder That You Don't Own Your Ebooks: B&N Nook Deletes Files, Blames User This is not another story like the one where Amazon deleted 1984 from the kindle. This is about treating ereaders as paper books where the info in them will not disappear. The guy is blaming B&N. And while there's a little validity to his rant, it's like crying "I didn't know that I had to back up my computer". Removing DRM would be the first step. Copying the files off your computer would be the next step. After all, you have to protect against loosing your data and your reader.

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11-01-2010, 12:08 PM	#2
abookreader Wizard Posts: 1,516 Karma: 2567610 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD	Well - yeah everybody back-up your files. And then back-up your back-ups. But he's pissed because he lost his personal files in a crash? Does he honestly think that Barnes and Noble is keeping a back-up of his personal documents? If so, he's an idiot. Could you imagine that absolute outrage that would rain down on any of these retailers if it was discovered they were grabbing copies of personal documents off of the reading devices and storing them on their servers? That would be a massive invasion of privacy.

11-01-2010, 12:34 PM	#4
yakuzaboss Groupie Posts: 171 Karma: 58 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Richmond, BC Device: Sony PRS-650	I always have multiple backups of my collection of ebooks: on different drives on my laptop and desktop, on a couple of usb drives and an external drive. It doesn't take any time at all to do it.

11-01-2010, 12:58 PM	#7
tubemonkey monkey on the fringe Posts: 45,851 Karma: 158733736 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle Metro Device: Moto E6, Echo Show	The only things of value on my computer are my bookmarks and folders. So I back those up about twice a week, using a USB thumb drive.

11-01-2010, 02:33 PM	#10
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	Thanks DG. For what it matters, the early days of Windows were pretty bad as far as updates went. It had gotten so bad that I would wait about a month before doing an update. XP was the first good version. I never had problems from then on. Correction. I totally skipped Windows Bob and Windows ME.

11-01-2010, 02:46 PM	#12
Fbone Is that a sandwich? Posts: 8,313 Karma: 103930826 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Nook Glowlight Plus	I believe this story was also posted on the B&N boards and Doug commented that this gentleman's nook was defective from time of purchase. Evidently, there were a few nooks that for reason unknown automatically did a factory reset which brought it back to 1.0 firmware. The nook then automatically updated to 1.4 as programmed. The data loss occurred when the nook defectively did the reset ... not ... the upgrade.

11-01-2010, 03:18 PM	#13
jhempel24 Wizard Posts: 2,157 Karma: 7068605 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Amazon Kindle Paperwhite, B&N Nook Colro	This is the reason I strip DRM on all my books. That way if they wipe it, I can just get it back from Calibre or otherwise...and if he bought the books from B&N, wouldn't he be able to just download them again?? But I have a perfectly working nook, so I wouldn't expect to happen to mine anyway.

11-01-2010, 04:37 PM	#14
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	Thanks, Fbone. He was able to get the B&N books back on the nook. But he, apparently had other books and documents that were either inconvenient to retrieve or, more likely, he couldn't remember the names and places of purchase. He should’ve used Calibre. One of my worries last Christmas, and this Christmas too, was all the companies trying to get anything out the door. I do want a tablet, but may just wait until after the rush.