Potentially very disappointed

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Tulkas

I'm looking forward to the day when a decent eBook convertor which strips out DRM is available ~ similar to what's happened with music files.

I have no problem paying for eBooks, don't want to pirate anything but do want to be able to read books purchased on any device and in any format ~ all this propriety crap is just stunting the growth of the eBook market.

You may not want to pirate anything, but there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people do (look at the eBook usenet newsgroups for a start). If such a converter, able to strip out DRM, were to come along, the most likely outcome would be that many publishers would withdraw from the eBook business. Many publishers - and authors - will not release eBooks without DRM.

Note that pretty much all eBook formats are proprietory. Being proprietory does not (necessarily) equate to using DRM.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You may not want to pirate anything, but there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people do (look at the eBook usenet newsgroups for a start). If such a converter, able to strip out DRM, were to come along, the most likely outcome would be that many publishers would withdraw from the eBook business. Many publishers - and authors - will not release eBooks without DRM.

Note that pretty much all eBook formats are proprietory. Being proprietory does not (necessarily) equate to using DRM.

It's also interesting to look at the eBook usenet newsgroup's responses to people asking for pirate copies of Baen books -- "It's only 5 bucks, just BUY it you cheapskate" and "Baen is the good guys; support them, don't pirate them." This difference came about through Baen choosing to go with cheap pricing and no DRM. Jim Baen (RIP) used to say that if you treat your customers like pirates, that's what they'll act like. But if you treat them like people...

I admit that this approach might not work for the #1 NYT bestseller. On the other hand, it has worked just fine for several #5-6 NYT bestsellers. And the converters don't have to strip the DRM, because there isn't any!

Xenophon

[wmaurer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That would be a ridiculous thing to do. Right now, any book sold through Mobi is an additional sale, since it's to a non-Kindle device. Why would they want to stop that?

I don't know why that would want to do that, but I have just got a response from Mobipocket that two books that are currently available as Kindle Editions will not be available from Mobipocket:
http://www.mobipocket.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9179

[IreneDelse]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

It's also interesting to look at the eBook usenet newsgroup's responses to people asking for pirate copies of Baen books -- "It's only 5 bucks, just BUY it you cheapskate" and "Baen is the good guys; support them, don't pirate them." This difference came about through Baen choosing to go with cheap pricing and no DRM. Jim Baen (RIP) used to say that if you treat your customers like pirates, that's what they'll act like. But if you treat them like people...

I admit that this approach might not work for the #1 NYT bestseller. On the other hand, it has worked just fine for several #5-6 NYT bestsellers. And the converters don't have to strip the DRM, because there isn't any!

Amen to that!

And it's nice to know that non-DRM ebooks have worked for big sellers also.

[IreneDelse]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That would be a ridiculous thing to do. Right now, any book sold through Mobi is an additional sale, since it's to a non-Kindle device. Why would they want to stop that?

Indeed. Since Amazon bought Mobipocket, every ebook sale in Mobipocket format is an additional sale for Amazon too.

[IreneDelse]

BTW, I don't know if someone already posted it, but as DearAuthor reports today several major publishers confirmed they have no exclusivity with Amazon for ebook releases. Good to know!

[Egghead]

Originally Posted by IreneDelse

BTW, I don't know if someone already posted it, but as DearAuthor reports today several major publishers confirmed they have so exclusivity with Amazon for ebook releases. Good to know!

I hope that's a typo and you meant to say NO exclusivity.

[IreneDelse]

Yes, it is a typo! Thanks.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Jon,

I'm not so sure it's won anything. However, I do believe that if anyone is going to suffer over this, it will be Bookeen as well. And the reason I believe this is because now that Amazon has brought out it's own format (yeah, I *know* it's just a mobi PRC) with far more books available RIGHT NOW, I don't really see the need for Amazon to keep Mobipocket open. I believe one of Amazon's next moves will be to kill off Mobi.

Now the problem I see with this is that Whispernet is just here in the US, but as soon as they get it overseas, that means it will have the fastest, easiest method for selling and distributing ebooks - with the greatest number of titles. And don't you think most *major* publishers are going to want to have that part of the retail chain sewn up???

I hope this is not the case because I think the Cybook and PRS are far more flexible than the Kindle, but they're pitching it to the technophobe book readers out there and those people may well be sucked in.

Derek

What I think is that this AZW format is just mobi format., But the difference is that you do not get the PID of your device(s). So closing Mobipocket would have an effect on Kindle books. AZW I think stands for AmaZon Whispernet hence the AZW. So basically, it would be a hidden PID for each device. But I also think there is one difference (at least I hope so). Images for the books would be large enough for the 6" screen instead of PDA sized. According to one of the various blogs/articles linked it said that Sony is working on it's on wifi reader. So we'll see how that goes if it really happens. The problem is that Amazon has the clout, the content, and (at present) the prices for the books to make a go of this.

For the average person, it's a great device. You just select your book, download it, and read away. They won't care about DRM or even know such exists. I do think that if Amazon was to close Mobipocket, that would be a real killer for ebooks in general. What I do think is that maybe Amazon might have Mobipocket be the central site in Europe for doing what they are doing in the USA.

I am hoping more people are correct in that the titles for AZW that are not in any other format will eventually make it to other formats. But we will just have to see what happens.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

400$ device plus 10$ per book to technophobic book readers?? I kind of doubt it will catch on. Before Kindle was released I thought it will outsell the Sony by a reasonable margin, but it will be far off from a breakout device with sells in mid hundreds k a year.

Now with all the limitations, unless they change something drastically, I strogly doubt it will outsell the Sony and may not even outsell the Bookeen.
To me the big winners here is Sony since this device makes the Sony reader a much more desirable alternative.

Lets say you are looking for an ebook reader in the USA. You have the 505 and the Kindle. Now, you go an look at the prices for both devices. $100 difference. Just purchase 10 bestsellers using the Kindle and the price has just become cheaper then the 505 based on the amount you've just saved. Buy even more and the saving make the Kindle cost even less. Face it, Amazon is going to win if you look at it from an economic standpoint.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

It's also interesting to look at the eBook usenet newsgroup's responses to people asking for pirate copies of Baen books -- "It's only 5 bucks, just BUY it you cheapskate" and "Baen is the good guys; support them, don't pirate them." This difference came about through Baen choosing to go with cheap pricing and no DRM. Jim Baen (RIP) used to say that if you treat your customers like pirates, that's what they'll act like. But if you treat them like people...

I admit that this approach might not work for the #1 NYT bestseller. On the other hand, it has worked just fine for several #5-6 NYT bestsellers. And the converters don't have to strip the DRM, because there isn't any!

Xenophon

Let's use CDs as the medium in this case. I know others who will not pirate music CDs except for the copy protected music CDs. You remove the protection and the CDs won't be stolen. You put on the protection and if that protection can be stripped it will be stolen.

Same deal it seems with Baen ebooks since Baen is trusting us to be good and we are overall.

[wmaurer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I do think that if Amazon was to close Mobipocket, that would be a real killer for ebooks in general. What I do think is that maybe Amazon might have Mobipocket be the central site in Europe for doing what they are doing in the USA.

I posted a message on this thread hours ago, to the same effect as what I'm writing now, but it hasn't appeared.

Mobipocket have responded to a message of mine here:
http://www.mobipocket.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9179
Two e-books are available as Kindle Editions but will not be available on Mobipocket. These are not small volume novels, they're both on Booker Prize shortlist. Mobipocket is putting the blame on the publishers, but I think Amazon are behind this.

Right now, I feel that Amazon is bad for the e-book world.

-Wayne

[IreneDelse]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Lets say you are looking for an ebook reader in the USA. You have the 505 and the Kindle. Now, you go an look at the prices for both devices. $100 difference. Just purchase 10 bestsellers using the Kindle and the price has just become cheaper then the 505 based on the amount you've just saved. Buy even more and the saving make the Kindle cost even less. Face it, Amazon is going to win if you look at it from an economic standpoint.

Which makes me think: people who don't read a lot of "best-sellers" might not be very interested by the Kindle. I'm rather eclectic, sometimes a bestseller might draw my interest, but certainly not if I have to purchase a DRM-laden ebook for as much as the hardcover book I can hold in my hand, keep for years and years, or give away or resell if I'm not interested after all!

And I wonder about the sanity of publishers who sell ebooks at the same price than ordinary books, even thought they don't have printing, handling and shipping costs with electronic texts... A better business model would be something along the lines of BAEN Books, with ebooks a about the same price as a paperback or less. Here in France, we have Eons, another publisher of sci-fi books who sells ebooks for about a third of their hardcover editions.

The ebook market has a lot of maturing and evolving to do.

[Tulkas]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You may not want to pirate anything, but there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people do (look at the eBook usenet newsgroups for a start). If such a converter, able to strip out DRM, were to come along, the most likely outcome would be that many publishers would withdraw from the eBook business. Many publishers - and authors - will not release eBooks without DRM.

Note that pretty much all eBook formats are proprietory. Being proprietory does not (necessarily) equate to using DRM.

I'm not so sure about that point of view given how the music download market is heading. I just wish the DRM they used was something like your name so if it's found floating around they can single out the sharers not those who want to use mutliple platforms/devices.

On the subject of the Kindle I doubt that Amazon would dump Mobipocket. It's highly unlikely that Kindle is going to storm the market like an iPod ~ it's damn ugly for a start, you're locked into one supplier and it's a US only product (at least for now).

[wmaurer]

Sorry to bump, but my posts #33 and #42 got lost in the ether and have only just appeared. I don't want to labour the point but I'm very disappointed.