Atheist zealots a heavy cross to bear

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Get on your knees and pray right now. This instant. Do it with all your heart and you'll get your evidence.

So: no evidence. It's your claim, it's up to you to provide the evidence.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

I'm just speculating on how I think it may work. Obviously the game God plays is not a game, but as science shows there are rules that he apparently decides to operate within. But thats a good thing. In order for Choice, which is the key aspect of our existence, to have its meaning its very important that there be effects to causes in the universe. Otherwise there could be no real example of people who chose morality as a way of life. Get it people, Gods plan is something about getting us to choose to be moral. And the universe is set up, it seems, to facilitate that choice. God only has use for those folks. The rest burn in hell. I don't know maybe as a designer God is trying to constantly improve his designs, and incorporating choice into the equation is the important improvement.

If you were trying to design an intelligent computer, machines that regularly lied and acted on evil whims would be fairly useless to us. If the computer was intelligent it would have to be able to choose actions and weigh out consequences. And the only point in having that machine would be to have ones which chose for the Good.

Are you suggesting that the whole of the observable universe is here to act as some sort of filter for something that happens after death?

From what you've above said you're also not linking moral choice explicitly to belief in God. Can we clarify whether you believe that atheists who live moral lives will also avoid burning in hell and go forward through this selection process?

Graham

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

Does your Jesus approve of making fun of the names of people of other cultures?

No. But I'm not perfect... heh heh..

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by weateallthepies

The theory of evolution by natural selection is pretty solid proof that man was not created in god's image. There's still a question on the universe but it's definitely older than religion thinks it should be,

Not true of all religion by any means. YECs believe in a young earth, many others do not and agree with the scientific evidence.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

No. But I'm not perfect... heh heh..

Yes, we've noticed.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Graham

Are you suggesting that the whole of the observable universe is here to act as some sort of filter for something that happens after death?

From what you've above said you're also not linking moral choice explicitly to belief in God. Can we clarify whether you believe that atheists who live moral lives will also avoid burning in hell and go forward through this selection process?

Graham

If you choose morality, especially if you did it while questioning God.. well I'd assume that God looks pretty favorably on that, and I can't see why thats part of Satans plan. But don't take my word for it. I do not speak for God... but maybe God speaks through me... just maybe. The above is not the real problem with atheism.

[Lo Zeno]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

People hanging around taking other folks food for free while they apparently spend their whole life trying to gain some 'Enlightenment'. Gee whiz, and when they're done, they're so spaced out they get up from under the tree and stand in the same spot staring into space for 6 days!

...which applies to Christian hermits too, then.
Do I have to repeat ONCE AGAIN that that same MEDITATION is praised by St. Augustine (who was a Christian scholar, a saint, and is today accepted as one of the most brilliant theologist who ever lived) as the best way to hear God's voice, and that many Saint did that same meditation to see Jesus/God/the Holy Mary/other Saints and talk to them? So, if buddhist meditation is so wrong, then Christian meditation must be just as wrong, since they work the same way: you start by abstaining from food, you sit in the same place for days, you contemplate your surrounding, then you contemplate your inner self, and you look for your inner Soul (which is the Christian counterpart of the Buddhist Divine Spark). At that moment, God supposedly talks to you, or so report several dozens of saints who did this in the past.

(I may be agnostic, but I was lucky enough to study Christian History and Theology in Rome)

Yeah sure... Keep meditating. And become enlightened by reading books by Han Solo! Funny...

I partially agree to this. Just, please go to a Christian cloister monk and tell him the same thing, just to see how he replies. I'll wait here, because I have already done it.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

Yes, we've noticed.

Well I noticed that you aren't perfect either...

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Graham

Are you suggesting that the whole of the observable universe is here to act as some sort of filter for something that happens after death?

From what you've above said you're also not linking moral choice explicitly to belief in God. Can we clarify whether you believe that atheists who live moral lives will also avoid burning in hell and go forward through this selection process?

Graham

It could be yes... It may be that this life is only a test for something far more significant and greater to come...

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

It could be yes... It may be that this life is only a test for something far more significant and greater to come...

It may be so, but there's no evidence of it.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Lo Zeno

...which applies to Christian hermits too, then.
Do I have to repeat ONCE AGAIN that that same MEDITATION is praised by St. Augustine (who was a Christian scholar, a saint, and is today accepted as one of the most brilliant theologist who ever lived) as the best way to hear God's voice, and that many Saint did that same meditation to see Jesus/God/the Holy Mary/other Saints and talk to them? So, if buddhist meditation is so wrong, then Christian meditation must be just as wrong, since they work the same way: you start by abstaining from food, you sit in the same place for days, you contemplate your surrounding, then you contemplate your inner self, and you look for your inner Soul (which is the Christian counterpart of the Buddhist Divine Spark). At that moment, God supposedly talks to you, or so report several dozens of saints who did this in the past.

(I may be agnostic, but I was lucky enough to study Christian History and Theology in Rome)


I partially agree to this. Just, please go to a Christian cloister monk and tell him the same thing, just to see how he replies. I'll wait here, because I have already done it.

You're getting mixed up with words my friend... Christians don't feel that the word meditation, has the same connotations as Buddhists. (They might have told you that in Rome) But I wouldn't trust Rome just cause Rome is Rome. Ha! Satan's been working on that place for some time...

Oh yeah and I have talked to plenty of monks and hermits about these things and think its funny to... As Asia's waking up economically, so people are getting converted. God Bless...

[Graham]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Like I said I'm deeply suspicious of people called Thich Han, why, you might as well be called Han Solo! Anyway. HA! Buddhism! What a waste of time!

People hanging around taking other folks food for free while they apparently spend their whole life trying to gain some 'Enlightenment'. Gee whiz, and when they're done, they're so spaced out they get up from under the tree and stand in the same spot staring into space for 6 days! Oh yeah, and then theres all those Buddhist kingdoms, of which Tibet was one, that regularly practiced serfdom, child slavery, and sick stuff like brothers sharing one wife. I once met a Buddhist monk from Bhutan who used to brag that at night he'd go around sleeping with girls at nightclubs, and in the day wander the forest begging for rice with a rice bowl. Wow. Its funny how people have come to think so highly of Buddhism since a number of hollywood types got involved. While you're at it why not believe in the alien overlord Zeno! And be a scientologist!

Yeah sure... Keep meditating. And become enlightened by reading books by Han Solo! Funny...

"Thich" is a title in Vietnamese given to Buddhist monks; you can equate it to "Father" or "Brother" in the Christian tradition.

His given name is Nhất Hạnh. Do you really think that rejecting another human being's integrity, intelligence and compassion on the grounds that he has a 'funny-sounding name' is a Christian way to behave?

If you spend even a short time following the link I gave, you will find that Nhất Hạnh's Buddhist communities spend virtually all their time helping others. The monastic retreats are open to the public for much of the year, and the monks and nuns get out and about far more than in the more closed Christian retreats. Your cartoon image of a monk sitting under a tree feeding off charity and emptying his head is as far from the truth here as is your attempt to link Buddhism to Scientology.

Doubtless there have been abuses of privilege and place in Buddhism as there have been in Christianity. But you'd be the first to argue that all Christians shouldn't be tarnished with the same brush. The same is true of Buddhism.

Graham

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by sweevo

It may be so, but there's no evidence of it.

Thats where faith and prayer come in. And you need a bit.

[weateallthepies]

Originally Posted by terrazoids

Its interesting to me that so far the more analytical types in this forum are attracted to the Old Testament to try and disprove. Us religious types are more interested in how we behave and act in the world rather than wasting time trying to attack others and score points. As an atheist, you need to justify your position. You need to attack. I don't.

You talk of a creator and how science could disprove it, so where else can an atheist head but the creation story.

You talk of how you don't mind offending people with your ideas and now you berate atheists for "attacking" and "point scoring".

Originally Posted by kennyc

Not true of all religion by any means. YECs believe in a young earth, many others do not and agree with the scientific evidence.

Yes you are of course right, I should have been clearer.

[terrazoids]

Originally Posted by Graham

"Thich" is a title in Vietnamese given to Buddhist monks; you can equate it to "Father" or "Brother" in the Christian tradition.

His given name is Nhất Hạnh. Do you really think that rejecting another human being's integrity, intelligence and compassion on the grounds that he has a 'funny-sounding name' is a Christian way to behave?

If you spend even a short time following the link I gave, you will find that Nhất Hạnh's Buddhist communities spend virtually all their time helping others. The monastic retreats are open to the public for much of the year, and the monks and nuns get out and about far more than in the more closed Christian retreats. Your cartoon image of a monk sitting under a tree feeding off charity and emptying his head is as far from the truth here as is your attempt to link Buddhism to Scientology.

Doubtless there have been abuses of privilege and place in Buddhism as there have been in Christianity. But you'd be the first to argue that all Christians shouldn't be tarnished with the same brush. The same is true of Buddhism.

Graham

Yeah but my cartoon image is actually what happened (they say...)

Its good if 'Father' Han helps other people, but the other stuff just wasting time. Its not far different than believing in an alien overlord. I mean Scientologists have these 'centers' where they claim they help other people too. Its actually just brainwashing.