No E-Books Allowed in This Establishment

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I obviously agreed. It does explain why no one born in the 1940s when new fathers handed out cigars, is still alive.

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by that; it's obviously untrue. Not everybody who smokes is going to develop lung cancer, but it's undeniable that smoking dramatically increases your chances of doing so, along with other unpleasant ailments such as emphysema (for which smoking is the primary cause).

[patrickt]

I don't want to continue this since it's a reading forum but it was nice to see you move from "causes" to "increases your chances". It's interesting that a smoking-related death is the death of anyone who has smoked from certain illnesses. If you die at the age of 83 from congestive heart failure and you smoked, it's a smoking related death. If you never smoked, well, I suppose it can be a second-hand smoke-related death if you ever were exposed to anyone smoking. So, for certain diseases, if you smoke or have smoked or were around smoke, that was the causative factor. Seems pretty sloppy, albeit popular, research.

I certainly don't think smoking is good for people. I also don't think hysteria, hatred, and bad science is good for people either. When I was quite young, I realized that "scientists" who were being paid to say smoking was good for you were silly. Even I knew, as a child, it wasn't good for you. It's amazing how "research" shifts by what they get paid to find.

[Adoby]

Originally Posted by patrickt

It's amazing how "research" shifts by what they get paid to find.

Research without bias is impossible. The best you can hope for is that the bias is acknowledged and that attempts are made to compensated for it.

If you decide what results you expect, before you look, it is more likely that you will find just what you are looking for.

I have tested this myself and, as I assumed, it turned out to be true.

[pietvo]

Originally Posted by Adoby

If you decide what results you expect, before you look, it is more likely that you will find just what you are looking for.

I have tested this myself and, as I assumed, it turned out to be true.

That's very handy when you have lost something.

[Adoby]

Originally Posted by pietvo

That's very handy when you have lost something.

Yes. I usually find it where I used it last. Just as I expected.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The people who really suffer from smoking in restaurants, pubs, etc, are the employees. We, as customers, can make the choice not to eat in a restaurant which permits smoking, but the employees do not have that choice. Everybody has a right to a safe workplace environment and a smoky atmosphere is a proven health-risk.

What's funny is that restaurant employees seem to smoke more than the general population.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Your description of liberty, custom and society suggests anarchy.

That's funny, given that I've spent almost 40 years in federal law enforcement.

But I suppose that liberty does seem to be anarchy to many people these days.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

I have to say, my opinion on this topic has slightly altered over the last few weeks. Part of it was that I wound up in a cafe during the day (a rarity for me) and every single person in there, except me, was tapping away on their laptops -- and ignoring each other. I can see how that might get to be a bit much after awhile.

It is definitely better if we all ignore each other in the cafes because we are reading.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Yup, same here.
I once remembered opening the door on them a bit brutally, and they look at me like

That's the bad effect, you can hardly find a place outside that is not polluted by smoke. Like people smoking when going to the metro station. You accelerate to pass in front of them not to breathe the smoke anymore.... And too bad, there is yet an other smoker in front of you.

There is no escaping The Law Of Unintended Consequences.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

I get it! Being a non-smoker (my whole life) I have absolutely no problem with it being banned. Here in Sweden it is the same. You want to smoke, you hang out in the doorway and litter the entrance with butts. I find it appallingly disgusting. But I also realize that for better or worse they are also people, not as productive (considering the amounts of smoking breaks) and here they will pretty much be eliminated within this decade. The latest is talk of a smoking ban in apartments buildings, the ventilation brings second hand smoke into other apartments. So people are beginning to stand outside on their balconies to smoke (you notice it from the amount of butts under balcony equipped apartments).
Despite my antipathy to smokers I think we will have to accept their presence in society unless we outlaw cigarettes and enforce capital punishment on smoking. Now that would be a clear cut message.

Here in the states, much of the anti-smoking fervor is class based. Working class blue and pink collars smoke, middle & upper class white collars don't. A generalization, of course, but generally true.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Well, medically speaking, tobacco is more damaging than cocaine, so any country that bans personal use of cocaine should, rationally speaking, also ban the sale of tobacco.

Or cocaine should be legal again. And pot. And EBRs in cafes. Of course, EBRs are clearly the most addictive...

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Hmm, I wonder. Considering the time for appeals and re-trials and whatnot actual execution of a capital punishment from the time of the verdict in a district court is probably longer than it takes to smoke 500,000 toxic pins.

So...the punishment for murder should be a seat in a smokers' bar...

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by Harmon

So...the punishment for murder should be a seat in a smokers' bar...

It has to be open from 8 am until midnight. The convict wears a foot ankle (is that the word?) that won't permit her even close to the windows and works for board and room. The owner of the smoker's bar has to pay a steep permit (but receives extremely cheap labor in return) to allow smokers in it.
It probably falls under cruel and unusual punishment though.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Harmon

That's funny, given that I've spent almost 40 years in federal law enforcement...

Now that's scary!

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

Now that's scary!

Freedom can be scary. The only people who should work for the government are those who distrust government.