Man! I hate self promoted books!

[DaringNovelist]

Originally Posted by scveteran

I can see saying that you would like to check out the author's work at a library. I would disagree with the idea that the author should need to give some of works free of charge before people buy their works. Seems too much like a sense of entitlement to me.

BTW, for those who know me. I just got back out of the hospital again. Had a heart cath this time. So I have been out of touch for a few days.

BexBits didn't say that authors should be required to provide something for free, only that he or she is less likely to buy it if they don't. And as an author, I have no problem with that.

Amazon has put us authors in a difficult position. Amazon is where most of the sales come from, so we really must offer books there - but they don't allow Indie authors or very small publishers to offer books for free, and it's also in the contract that you can't offer a book anywhere else for cheaper than you offer it at Amazon.

I understand their reasons, and I wonder if we authors should start a campaign for them to let us "earn" the right to offer freebies. Even if it's a high threshold, like allowing us to offer one of out ten free or something.

At the moment, all we can do is offer Smashwords coupons. (Smashwords is a gem - both with the coupons and allowing the 50 percent samples.)

Camille

[BexBits]

Originally Posted by scveteran

I can see saying that you would like to check out the author's work at a library. I would disagree with the idea that the author should need to give some of works free of charge before people buy their works. Seems too much like a sense of entitlement to me.

I was simply describing how I buy, not saying authors owe me anything. Since I can't check out an indie ebook writer at my local library, the free work takes the place of the library book. If they don't want to provide something like that I'm cool with that, I'm just less likely to buy something from them because I don't know if I'll enjoy it or not.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DaringNovelist

Amazon has put us authors in a difficult position. Amazon is where most of the sales come from, so we really must offer books there - but they don't allow Indie authors or very small publishers to offer books for free, and it's also in the contract that you can't offer a book anywhere else for cheaper than you offer it at Amazon.

Are you sure that free is cheaper? I think I saw a claim somewhere else at MR that free was not considered to be cheaper than what you sold it at amazon in this context.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by tompe

Are you sure that free is cheaper? I think I saw a claim somewhere else at MR that free was not considered to be cheaper than what you sold it at amazon in this context.

Positive. Authors have already reported having had their books frozen on Amazon (no sales allowed) until the situation was fixed. Amazon always had the policy in the contract, but only began checking more carefully here of late.

I do offer a few short stories for free, but that is because they were published by various e-zines. In general I think all my work has fairly decent sample sizes available too.

Of course...we can't please everyone all the time!!!

[plumboz]

Originally Posted by DaringNovelist

BexBits didn't say that authors should be required to provide something for free, only that he or she is less likely to buy it if they don't. And as an author, I have no problem with that.

At the moment, all we can do is offer Smashwords coupons. (Smashwords is a gem - both with the coupons and allowing the 50 percent samples.)

Camille

Agreed and agreed. If the only way some readers will take a chance on an unknown is to offer the work for free, then that's an option available to the author. The downside, at least from the feedback I've gotten, is that a lot of free downloads are simply pushed to the back of already bulging TBR lists and may or may not ever be read. No guarantees of anything in this life. Just the way it is. If you're going to be a writer, worrying about such things is plain old counterproductive.

And yes, I think Smashwords is a gem too. A lot of what gets published there qualifies as non-gems (trying to be polite), that is true, but Smashwords itself has become a wonderful home for a lot of very good writers who either can't get the traditional publishers to give them a whirl, or simply want to keep control of their own destiny and income.

[Marioninyc]

I just ended a "freebie" promotion. Lots of takers especially after it hit this forum and the kindle board. But so far no feedback from readers. It's a long book, and I expect it would take a while for people to finish it, but let's face it, we live in a culture where people don't value giveaways, and this may not "pay off." To those of you who dislike author self promotion, what would you as readers suggest indie-writers do to get their work known?

[Scott Nicholson]

Thanks, Grace--why does anyone assume the average reader cares about "good writing"? They clearly don't. Twilight is not well written. Patterson is merely competent on a craft level.

In fiction, most people love great stories, which is why we have to beat kids over the head to get them to read "classics" in high school that are "good for them." The most common result being we have teens who despise reading.

The average reader is pretty good at knowing what he or she likes, though. It's one of the growing pains of the era, and worth it to have a little crap for the chance at lots of fresh voices and experimentation.

Some people are happy to say my stuff is crap, and if they buy it and try it they've earned the right and I support it. Oddly, I very rarely get three-star reviews, so people usually love me or hate me, which I am grateful for. The worst offense of a writer is to bore you or waste your time.

Scott Nicholson
http://www.hauntedcomputer.com

[J. Strnad]

Giving away a free book is fine if you have other books to sell. Me, I just have one, so that won't work. So I make the first 50% available at Smashwords and that's as generous as I can be.

Someone may read the first half and still think, "Yeah, but it could fall apart in the 2nd half." But you know, there's nothing I can do about that. "You want a guarantee, buy a faucet," as the saying goes. I've paid thirty bucks for a book by an author I've liked, in a series I liked, and I ended up hating it, but that's how it goes sometimes.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

Giving away a free book is fine if you have other books to sell. Me, I just have one, so that won't work. So I make the first 50% available at Smashwords and that's as generous as I can be.

Someone may read the first half and still think, "Yeah, but it could fall apart in the 2nd half."

Books that "fall apart in the second half" are generally matters of reader preference rather than writing quality. If a person liked the first half, odds are they'll like the second half; disliking a plot twist is no reflection on the writing itself.

Okay, it's possible the author does great buildup for the first 75% of the story and then rushes an ending together and leaves a bunch of plot-threads hanging. But there are plenty of professionally-published books that do that, and plenty of readers who like that style (at least, judging by those books' sales). I don't believe there are any ebook authors who are saying, "bwa-ha-ha, I shall write 2/3 of a novel, and not bother with a decent ending--I'll just slap together a few pages of 'and then they got married and all lived happily ever after', and since the first half is all they can read for free, they'll pay me for the rest and I won't have to write a decent ending!"

[Lexi Revellian]

If a writer can't snag the reader in the first half of the book, he/she needs to try again.

Readers are to be trusted, long term at any rate; Jane Austen and Dickens are still read, Walter Scott and Marie Corelli, huge in their day, are not.

[NickSpalding]

Originally Posted by Marioninyc

I just ended a "freebie" promotion. Lots of takers especially after it hit this forum and the kindle board. But so far no feedback from readers. It's a long book, and I expect it would take a while for people to finish it, but let's face it, we live in a culture where people don't value giveaways, and this may not "pay off." To those of you who dislike author self promotion, what would you as readers suggest indie-writers do to get their work known?

I gave my book away for free for a week and received 400 hundred downloads ...

... and three pieces of feedback. Though two were five star reviews.

[ficbot]

Not to rain on the parade here, but nothing (to me) says amateur like begging for feedback. Do not be surprised if you get zero reviews. Many people download freebies for later and don't get to them right away. Many people are not reviewers anyway. Many people dislike writing 'bad' reviews and if they did not love the book, they will be silent. Imho you really cannot *expect* them or be disappointed if you don't get any

[GlenBarrington]

Originally Posted by ficbot

Not to rain on the parade here, but nothing (to me) says amateur like begging for feedback. Do not be surprised if you get zero reviews. Many people download freebies for later and don't get to them right away. Many people are not reviewers anyway. Many people dislike writing 'bad' reviews and if they did not love the book, they will be silent. Imho you really cannot *expect* them or be disappointed if you don't get any

Too true, I'm not comfortable writing a 'review'. It isn't just a reluctance to embarass the author; I'm not 100% comfortable with my ability to WRITE a review. Am I smart enough? Have I read enough to have an INFORMED opinion? I can say if I liked it or not, I can even tell you why, but an honest to God 'review' implies a step up from that.

[kcmay]

IMO a review doesn't need to be some long drawn out summary + deep analysis of a story. A sentence or two about what you liked or didn't like would be sufficient.

[ficbot]

I have no trouble writing reviews, even critical ones. But authors who come on here and say things like 'it has been three days and nobody has reviewed my book yet' are, I have to admit it, a bit of a pet peeve of mine. It reminds me of those in the fanfic community who will beg and plead for reviews and then threaten to withhold future chapters if they don't get it It just says 'total amateur' to me. But ymmv

I think many authors who self-publish ARE amateur---it doesn't mean they aren't potentially writing good books, but I mean in a business sense they are. This should not be undertaken as the instant path to fame and fortune. If they mean this to be a career, they have to look long tail and realize they a) need to put in some serious time and effort and work into promo and b) they need to be patient and pay their dues. Even in the 'old days' it worked that way---Stephen King toiled for years at slave wages as an English teacher while submitting stories to lad magazines. The Eragon kid sold books out of the trunk of his parents car at homeschooling conventions. It takes *time* to build an audience, and if this is your *job* then you have to devote that time. If you don't want to, or are too impatient, or whatever, then maybe this is not the job and career for you and maybe it will just be a nice hobby and whatever you sell, you sell. Certainly, that is a valid lifestyle decision. I myself made it---I just do not have the heart of a business tiger, so I went into a day job I enjoy and whatever writing I do is for fun, on the side.

I just really, really get tired of the 'you downloaded my book, now where is my review?' attitude. People have lives too, and the book may be your baby but to them it's one more thing to get to. Give it time, build up some good will and reputation, and if your book is good, it'll get out there. But don't beg for reviews, seriously. It just makes you look immature.