Windows 10 - free upgrade to those with PC using Windows 7 or 8

[kennyc]

I really can't believe (oh I guess I can) how and why some people twist things up so badly.

MS has only said that it will no longer (after a short period of time) support older versions of windows on new processors. End of story. Like it or lump it. Complain to MS if you have an issue. It's their product, they can do whatever they want. (and suffer whatever slings and arrows result)

[dickloraine]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Which led me to the following choice. If I had to run a 3rd party VM to run old software, instead of having one embedded by Microsoft, (which had been provided by Microsoft, invisibly, since Win 95), why should I keep upgrading with Microsoft? A VM is the same under any operating system. Why should I have to keep paying to upgrade (this decision was before Win 10), and trying to work around the latest "feature cuts" (because they weren't worth supporting), "phone home" (required Authorization) OSes, and no guarantee that any software I bought for the Microsoft OS would still be able to run with the next gen of OS? I got fed up and cut the Gordian Knot. . .and went to Linux as my main OS.

Drawbacks? Sure. But as I have pointed out, there were drawbacks with staying. I run XP under VirtualBox, and Win 7 as well (separate virtual machines). The only software that didn't work under the VMs were SIGIL 1.9, and a Hex Editor (I don't expect a Hex Editor to run under a VM, anyways).

I run Windows software that dates back to Win 3.0, an Atari 800 emulator that lets me run software from the early '80s and DOSBOX, which lets me run games from before Windows. (I could run an old Apple II or Mac 68000 emulator, but I never dipped into the Apple world).

And I can run my current version of Linux forever (or at least as long as I can get an x86 instruction set chip), or upgrade if I choose to.

So you still use windows, just in a VM? And a bunch of other OSs which also need special software to still run? You upgrade typically because of support and to use new features or software that only runs on the OS. You don't need anything of that? Don't upgrade or like you do, use linux. I don't know what that has to with windows, other than that you don't need it.

[Greg Anos]

The issue I have is not Windows 10, per se, but the radical change expectations being rammed down the customers throats.

You don't want to be a Beta Tester for Microsoft's corporate accounts? Too bad - you are, like it or lump it.

You want to read reviews of a new release's bugs before determining whether to install? Too bad - Microsoft is going to ram it into your computer, and you can't stop it.

You decided not to upgrade to windows 10? Too bad - Microsoft is going to try every trick they can think of to make you upgrade.

Look, if I had wanted this sort of computing environment, I would have converted over to Apple, a decade ago.

Because, make no mistake, Microsoft is aping Apple. They are making their OS a walled garden, which it wasn't before, with Windows 10. That's what the nay saying is all about, the elimination of user choice and control over their computing environment.

Non servum.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

So you can buy a new Windows 10 machine and legally run Windows 7 on it.

Unless you're running one of the new CPUs that won't be supported by Microsoft -- I guess it would be legal, but you'd be crazy to run Windows on the Internet without support.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Dopedangel

Microsoft is no longer selling win 7 so how are you going to buy it for your new PC in the first place. Using your old licence on a new PC is not allowed. And Oems will stop selling from Oct,16 if I recall correctly.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? You can still buy Windows 7 almost anywhere. And you can use it -- with support -- on any computer, except for Skylake and the other future CPUs (and this just happened).

Here's listings for Windows 7 on Amazon ...

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...Ck%3Awindows+7

You can go to Dell or HP and customize new work computers with Windows 7 today. One example ...

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/op...-3020m-desktop

It's not like Windows 7 was released seven years ago (or so) and they never touched it again. It's been constantly updated and maintained since its release. Don't confuse Microsoft's sales hype with reality. Microsoft merely wants to force people into one platform (1 billion users using Windows 10 is their goal). Even with the free offer, Windows 10 adoption has slowed (less than 10% of Windows computers use it) -- Windows 7 is still on over 55% of Windows' machines. Microsoft doesn't want this, so they're using strong-arm tactics to change it. All the yabbering about support is just noise -- it's really about Microsoft's vision for their new business model. It's coming along too slowly so they want to force the issue. That's the reality of the situation.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

And I can run my current version of Linux forever (or at least as long as I can get an x86 instruction set chip), or upgrade if I choose to.

When I still ran Windows, I ran it under a VM under Linux. I realized I never used it, so just got rid of it. I do still occasionally run dBase for DOS or WordStar for DOS and they work fine in DOSBox under Linux.

But my wife uses a specific version of Power Point -- and a professional and modifiable template presentation for her classes -- and it balked when she tried to update to a newer version of Microsoft Office. This is one of the main tools she uses in her business. She can't afford to guess whether it will work if Windows forces her to update to Windows 10. This is where you run into problems -- specialized (niche, custom) software doesn't always play well with upgrades.

But you've given me an idea. I'm going to test her Power Point under a Windows VM with Crossover. If that works, I can tell Microsoft to take a flying leap.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by kennyc

MS has only said that it will no longer (after a short period of time) support older versions of windows on new processors. End of story. Like it or lump it. Complain to MS if you have an issue. It's their product, they can do whatever they want. (and suffer whatever slings and arrows result)

"Short time" equals four years (Windows 7) and seven years (Windows 8.1). This is not "only" anything -- it's a huge change in the way Microsoft does business. It's a big trust issue that they're going to have trouble getting past. It's fundamentally dishonest and sleazy.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by rcentros

When I still ran Windows, I ran it under a VM under Linux. I realized I never used it, so just got rid of it. I do still occasionally run dBase for DOS or WordStar for DOS and they work fine in DOSBox under Linux.

But my wife uses a specific version of Power Point -- and a professional and modifiable template presentation for her classes -- and it balked when she tried to update to a newer version of Microsoft Office. This is one of the main tools she uses in her business. She can't afford to guess whether it will work if Windows forces her to update to Windows 10. This is where you run into problems -- specialized (niche, custom) software doesn't always play well with upgrades.

But you've given me an idea. I'm going to test her Power Point under a Windows VM with Crossover. If that works, I can tell Microsoft to take a flying leap.

<Bows deeply> Glad to have been of service.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I really can't believe (oh I guess I can) how and why some people twist things up so badly.

MS has only said that it will no longer (after a short period of time) support older versions of windows on new processors. End of story. Like it or lump it. Complain to MS if you have an issue. It's their product, they can do whatever they want. (and suffer whatever slings and arrows result)

And these are the slings and arrows.
What is your objection?

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Word 97 runs absolutely fine under 64-bit Windows 10. Word 6, released in 1993, was the first 32-bit version of Word.

Hm. I see there was a 32-bit version that ran on NT 3.x only. Never knew that.

Later, parts of NT's 32-bit underpinnings were backported to Windows 3.11, called Win32s. Many programs worked fine with this, as long as they didn't use any specific NT-only parts that were/could not be ported.

Did Word 6 32-bit run under Win32s, and later, Windows 95 and NT 4?

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I really can't believe (oh I guess I can) how and why some people twist things up so badly.

MS has only said that it will no longer (after a short period of time) support older versions of windows on new processors. End of story. Like it or lump it. Complain to MS if you have an issue. It's their product, they can do whatever they want. (and suffer whatever slings and arrows result)

No, they can't do what they want.

Skylake has been out for 5 months, and it was up and coming for even longer. It was delayed for some time, mainly because its predecessor, Broadwell, was also delayed.

If Microsoft was of a mind not to support Windows 7 on Skylake, they should have announced that *before* general availability of that CPU. Now, people and companies have, or may have bought new Skylake systems, expecting to get support until 2020, which would be a reasonable time to write off a computer. Now, they have support until 2017, *if* they are lucky and Microsoft puts these systems on their list.

Heck, my powerhouse workstation class notebook was delivered with Windows 7 installed, a few days before the announcement was made. And no, it didn't come with an option to choose Windows 10 upon delivery; I had to upgrade it myself. Why? Because Windows 10 and its drivers are not yet officially ISV certified by all parties of which Dell wishes to have certificates of, regarding this notebook.

What if I bought this notebook, completely liking that it had Windows 7 instead of 10, and assuming I would have support until 2020, only to hear that my support will now be cut back to 2017, if I'm lucky enough to see that notebook on MS's list?

This is just a crap move.

I rant a lot about Apple and Linux, but as you can see, I'm not a Microsoft/Winidows fanboy either. I've dropped companies for pulling less of a stunt than this crap, but I can't move off of Windows. It's too much of a hassle in my daily life. I don't have the time (or inclination) to tinker with software to get it to run outside of my normal workday as a software engineer.

[dickloraine]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

The issue I have is not Windows 10, per se, but the radical change expectations being rammed down the customers throats.

You don't want to be a Beta Tester for Microsoft's corporate accounts? Too bad - you are, like it or lump it.

You want to read reviews of a new release's bugs before determining whether to install? Too bad - Microsoft is going to ram it into your computer, and you can't stop it.

You decided not to upgrade to windows 10? Too bad - Microsoft is going to try every trick they can think of to make you upgrade.

Look, if I had wanted this sort of computing environment, I would have converted over to Apple, a decade ago.

Because, make no mistake, Microsoft is aping Apple. They are making their OS a walled garden, which it wasn't before, with Windows 10. That's what the nay saying is all about, the elimination of user choice and control over their computing environment.

Non servum.

I really can't see, what you mean by a walled garden? Does windows now only run on hardware selled by ms? Can you buy software only through ms? To the contrary, MS gets more cross platform than before, open sources some projects etc.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Dopedangel

Microsoft is no longer selling win 7 so how are you going to buy it for your new PC in the first place. Using your old licence on a new PC is not allowed. And Oems will stop selling from Oct,16 if I recall correctly.

That is not always true.
You can not transfer an OEM license (eg Dell, Toshiba...)
You can if it was a Retail (Full version, not upgrade)

transfer, The original hardware is dead.

BTW, there are a number of Refurbishers selling cleaned up, Off Lease, equipment. I got a nice Dell Optiplex with 8G RAM and a new 1T HD for US$300 at Walmart.com that is running W7 PRO

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

While that might be true, I get the impression from Microsoft's statements that the "will not support" refers to the availability of security updates through Windows Update.

You are getting the right impression, it is the only one that can possibly apply. Why? Win7 hasn't been in mainstream support since january of last year. Since then it has been in extended support (no more hotline, no more new features, no more free updates except security related). Saying that Windows is in support for 10 years is always misleading as the first 5 are different than the last 5.

You can probably not even sue them over it as there is allowance that they can change the support policy. If I remember right you also sign away your arbitration rights. Outside the US? Maybe someone can sue, unless it is worded without loopholes.

[kennyc]

Buy MS Stock! This whole thing will increase Enterprise Sales for Microsoft.

http://www.benzinga.com/analyst-rati...prise-business