Astak Mentor eBook readers with WiFi and Touchscreen (read-only)

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

I think you meant 256 color, not 26K color. Do you really think the color will be this year?

Dale

Dear Dale:

You know how factories are. They give a roadmap and then make excuses. But I honestly do think that we will indeed see color by year's end. Most likely it will be a mix of e-ink with a backlight so you save power reading in E-ink and then have the backlight for color items. I can tell you that Astak's General Manager is pushing it big time and it looks very good. He already has a prototype.

I am hesitant to speculate as the very few get angry when speculation does not become fact right on time... but this looks like a pretty good bet.

Thank you!!

Robert B

[griffonwing]

Originally Posted by Robertb

......

The 9.7 inch Mentor Electra will have 16 level grey scale flexiscreen, 600MHz processor, 16,000 page to a single charge, and READS TRUE on 8 by 10!! Right now the product roadmap says October-November 2009. An option on the Mentor Electra will be 26K COLOR screen with much improved battery life.

Robert B

Will there be a 9.7 Lite version, with 16-lvl gray, 16k page turn, but with no touch, no wi-fi, no 3g, etc... A basic no-frills comic pdf reader?

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by Dylrob

I'm curious, how much do the regular ones cost?

Dear Dylrob:

Regular 5-wire resistive touchscreens cost the factory about $70 to add to a 6 inch device.

Again, people, please do not blame me saying I scoff at a cost of maybe $150 or so additional to get "under the E-Ink" Touchscreen. I do not scoff at any cost. I am just trying to keep you informed and be honest about it. I try to treat all of you as highly informed and involved people and I think it helps to attach dollars to something to aid in your discussions.

Robert B

[rhari79]

Hi Robertb,
This is now a very long thread and I havent had the chance to read through it. It is also very good that someone from the actual manufacturer is talking with us all customers. This is welcome change.

My request to you:
There are a huge bunch of 6'(and a few 5') readers already available in the market. It will be really good opportunity for someone to go few steps ahead and provide us greedy people with a bigger reader, but at a more palatable price.

In the few glimpses of the msgs I have read you seem to be interested in putting in more functionality into the 9.7' reader.
This is great. But also it seems to delay the dates further, touch, wifi, colour etc., only add to the delay.
It will be good if these features are planned, but a basic reader, stable and very useable is released upfront and the rest added later. For eg., color can be an optional firmware upgrade later.

Just to compare, fujitsu, brother, PL are all knocking at bigger readers. It is not that the fastest to provide one will win, but the best performing affordable reader has the best scope for wide acceptance.

Hope to hear more about the Astak..
thanks
hari

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by griffonwing

Will there be a 9.7 Lite version, with 16-lvl gray, 16k page turn, but with no touch, no wi-fi, no 3g, etc... A basic no-frills comic pdf reader?

Dear Griffonwing:

You are always great with your questions and this is no exception. My answer is a lousy "I do not know". That has not (surprisingly) come up. Everybody seems to be of a bent where they think a 9.7 inch should be a "Superfantasticoepic". They just assume it should have every known feature including running water.

I will bring this up!! The roadmap from the factory seems to be running water with toilet added. I doubt they will do one without Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and Note-Taking... but those are "cheaper features". I would not doubt that one without Touch will see the light of day.

You have asked a very good question!! Let me try to get an answer.

Robert B

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by Robertb

You know how factories are. They give a roadmap and then make excuses. But I honestly do think that we will indeed see color by year's end. Most likely it will be a mix of e-ink with a backlight so you save power reading in E-ink and then have the backlight for color items. I can tell you that Astak's General Manager is pushing it big time and it looks very good. He already has a prototype.

But wait, a backlight on eInk is supposed to be impossible. The screens are opaque, not translucent as LCD. Or did you mean side/front lighting?

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by rhari79

Hi Robertb,
This is now a very long thread and I havent had the chance to read through it. It is also very good that someone from the actual manufacturer is talking with us all customers. This is welcome change.

My request to you:
There are a huge bunch of 6'(and a few 5') readers already available in the market. It will be really good opportunity for someone to go few steps ahead and provide us greedy people with a bigger reader, but at a more palatable price.

In the few glimpses of the msgs I have read you seem to be interested in putting in more functionality into the 9.7' reader.
This is great. But also it seems to delay the dates further, touch, wifi, colour etc., only add to the delay.
It will be good if these features are planned, but a basic reader, stable and very useable is released upfront and the rest added later. For eg., color can be an optional firmware upgrade later.

Just to compare, fujitsu, brother, PL are all knocking at bigger readers. It is not that the fastest to provide one will win, but the best performing affordable reader has the best scope for wide acceptance.

Hope to hear more about the Astak..
thanks
hari

Dear Hari:

Fully agree. Please see above (to Griffonwing) for some of the answer. You are absolutely right. THAT is what I have been trying to say to people when projections slip. It is not delay as much from time to add features on a production line as it is delay weighing features versus cost analysis. That is what eats up time. It is like "lets price at $600 and add every feature in the world and sell at $900". "WHOOPS, $900 won't sell...better start scrapping features". The adding and whittling down arguing is what causes delays. (all pricing above is pure fantasy).

BUT... if you come out with a 9.7 without Touch and someone else has it... you may lose interest. It is a never-ending nightmare. What if I threw a party and nobody came? So now you have features, cost, and worry about the competition to figure out.

Robert B

[Xenophon]

RobertB: You said quite clearly that the 9.7" model will have the flexi-screen, but weren't clear on the 6" one. I ask because these devices are expensive enough (for personal use) that I would strongly prefer a more robust screen if it were available.

Xenophon

[Emu]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Dear Griffonwing:

You are always great with your questions and this is no exception. My answer is a lousy "I do not know". That has not (surprisingly) come up. Everybody seems to be of a bent where they think a 9.7 inch should be a "Superfantasticoepic". They just assume it should have every known feature including running water.

I will bring this up!! The roadmap from the factory seems to be running water with toilet added. I doubt they will do one without Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and Note-Taking... but those are "cheaper features". I would not doubt that one without Touch will see the light of day.

You have asked a very good question!! Let me try to get an answer.

Robert B

I'm too waiting for a "cheap" >7" b/w ebook/comic/pdf reader -
or a fast good color reader with internet capabilities(-> touch)screen, which of course could be more expensive, as long as it still hast good b/w contrast!

[rhari79]

Originally Posted by griffonwing

Will there be a 9.7 Lite version, with 16-lvl gray, 16k page turn, but with no touch, no wi-fi, no 3g, etc... A basic no-frills comic pdf reader?

Originally Posted by Robertb

Please see above (to Griffonwing) for some of the answer.

BUT... if you come out with a 9.7 without Touch and someone else has it... you may lose interest. It is a never-ending nightmare. What if I threw a party and nobody came? So now you have features, cost, and worry about the competition to figure out.

griffonwing, That will be an good basic reader for people who want to plainly read;and read comfortably without huge constraints on page size and all other nitty gritty. A plain enlarged version of a 6' reader..
At the right price range, it should be just the device for college students. I for one will go for it..

Frankly if a 8+' hanlin lookalike is available, i will choose it.

I had to go for my 8' for just the same reasons(that mine can be added and extended is the other reason). I would have liked to throw away the stylus touch feature on mine(with appropriate useability changes) if it can give me an hour more and a few bucks less.


hari

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by rhari79

It will be good if these features are planned, but a basic reader, stable and very useable is released upfront and the rest added later. For eg., color can be an optional firmware upgrade later.

hari

ummmm....exactly what are you smoking? You expect a firmware "upgrade" (actually it is an UPDATE but that pales in comparison) to ADD COLOR to a MONOCHROME/GRAY SCALE display? When will the firmware upgrade to add a touch screen be out? And the one to add a backlight, wifi and mobile wireless?

Wow, that one is a dozy. Just yanking your chain since I am sure nobody could be that disconnected from the topic if they read the threads here. I just could not resist a fast teasing for that gaff!! THANKS!

EDIT: I really do want to add I am not being snarky (love that word!) with ya...I ma just having a bit of fun pointing out a gaff. I KNOW what you were trying to say and your fingers just got behind what your head was thinking.

[snipenekkid]

Robertb:

As to the touch screen. Sounds great but not if it is only in the larger versions. And also only if the technology used is well established for being reliable. Early touch screen technology was notoriously prone to failure over time. It all really comes down to the UI. If it stinks then touch, buttons, accelerometer or psi-control will not matter.

I am a fan of touch screen devices if they are to be hand held. Yet, I just love my old Clie that has the jog wheel on the side. I use the wheel more then the stylus. That wheel is the single greatest feature on the device and I will use the thing until smoke emits from the memory slots. Thing is that wheel can be used to navigate the entire UI as well as for reading it works to change pages. It also functions as a selection tool. But as great as it is, without the UI to exploit the versatility and convenience, the thing would be worthless. Same could be said for touch. A bad UI and it will not matter in the least.

FYI, I for one am also on the fence over wifi vs. mobile wireless. Problem with wanting to visit the web, the devices simply do not have the clock-cycles to support modem web sites so browsing would likely be relegated to online stores and sites with mobile versions, the mobile version of Wiki, and the online bookstores that also offer a lower overhead version for mobile devices. Given the two I really am not sure which is better wifi as a means to simply transfer files (a networking problem for probably the majority of people), though connecting to a wifi node either on your home network or public is a trivial issue or true mobile broadband service.

For mobile wifi you will need the device to have an actual web browser as many public wifi hot spots use ID techniques which require browse based access to sign into the service. At home or work just configuring having a connection manager on the device to access your network is a trivial matter. But what then if there is no browser? Do you include some sort of VNC client and require adding a VNC server on the host system?

I lean toward mobile wireless as I already have a plan which would allow me to add the device to my account without an extra charge. I would prefer the feature be an extra I could either buy originally or add later. But not sure how practical that is production wise. The reason I see people like the Kindles so much is the simplicity of putting books on the device over Whispernet. Without mobile wireless that becomes a much more problematic issue because wifi has inherent access issues. For the most part mobile broadband is everywhere you will be. Yeah there are dead spots and such but there is something over 90% market penetration by the technology. We can even get service in National Parks. Still I would have no problem with both wifi and mobile broadband.

Still, unless someone has my luck in the service provider I use being so open to not only unlimited MBB w/o a cap as well as adding something like a book reader on top of the primary device, there is a whole other set of hurtles.

So, yeah, I like the touch screen option, to a point. I think we all need to pay closer attention to the UI's these devices are using over the hardware.

[brudigia]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Dear Griffonwing:

You are always great with your questions and this is no exception. My answer is a lousy "I do not know". That has not (surprisingly) come up. Everybody seems to be of a bent where they think a 9.7 inch should be a "Superfantasticoepic". They just assume it should have every known feature including running water.

I will bring this up!! The roadmap from the factory seems to be running water with toilet added. I doubt they will do one without Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and Note-Taking... but those are "cheaper features". I would not doubt that one without Touch will see the light of day.

You have asked a very good question!! Let me try to get an answer.

Robert B

I would like to support griffonwing request. Outisde USA wireless, at least right now, is not a very high selling point. What is the use, after all ? Buying and downloading ebooks ? Then a wireless add on could be a very expensive solution to replace a PC, which you normally already own and the old trusted USB. There could be a market in the EU for a basic - nofrills device. Personally, I think that right now these possible options, wireless and touch screen do not really improve anything. A device with those options will become more akin to a netpc and end up competing with them (and lose, pricewise). Whereas a 9.7" rightly priced .....uuuhmmm.

Cheers.

[robvarga]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

Robertb:


FYI, I for one am also on the fence over wifi vs. mobile wireless. Problem with wanting to visit the web, the devices simply do not have the clock-cycles to support modem web sites so browsing would likely be relegated to online stores and sites with mobile versions, the mobile version of Wiki, and the online bookstores that also offer a lower overhead version for mobile devices.

And Google Map. Seriously, consider how this can also be a poor man's map browsing device with a good enough resolution, easy user interface (minimal amount of clicks for moving the map, e.g. pressing and holding certain parts of the edge of the screen). You don't necessarily need GPS interfacing (although it really would be great to have), particularly if you are walking and see the street names.

And of course route planning sites e.g. for urban public transport, like tflgov.co.uk.

Best regards,

Robert

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by brudigia

I would like to support griffonwing request. Outisde USA wireless, at least right now, is not a very high selling point. What is the use, after all ? Buying and downloading ebooks ? Then a wireless add on could be a very expensive solution to replace a PC, which you normally already own and the old trusted USB. There could be a market in the EU for a basic - nofrills device. Personally, I think that right now these possible options, wireless and touch screen do not really improve anything. A device with those options will become more akin to a netpc and end up competing with them (and lose, pricewise). Whereas a 9.7" rightly priced .....uuuhmmm.

Cheers.

That was one of the reasons I was considering when mentioning that the mobile wireless be a modular thing. You know either a USB dongle or a simple card that can be slid into a slot on the device. If a card based solution is the path chosen it actually makes the device more expensive is one does not already have a card. And I am not meaning a SIM card because I don't feel people who will never use the wireless feature should pay for hardware they'll never use. Rather I mean a Cardbus or a PC-Express card slot. I think the idea solution is still a USB dongle as they can be found cheaply these days. The cards, for some reason, are still quite artificially high. Of course that is what happens to a device when the target buyer is either a business or the employee of a business who is not paying for the thing.

The whole wireless thing is a shame really. By this point in time it should be as transparent as breathing. Yet, because of a variety of reasons it is not only impossibly expensive, it also so restrictive as to be almost useless when compared to what could actually be done with it right now.

That's why I am squarely on the fence. On one hand I like the convenience it represents, on the other I do not like the complexity it adds. for those two reasons if wireless of some kind must be in a device, wifi might be a better choice but, honestly I would likely never use wifi near as much as MBB.

A device released for the US market that includes MBB would work since the Kindle has done an amazing bit of black magic there. I never would have thought it would be the success it is today. But, how to you herd all the non-Amazon companies selling ebooks into a collective store where they all get along well enough to create a bookstore that is usable on a reader device? Plus there is now the relationship between Sony + B&N and who knows what proprietary locked in device they will bring out to really cause a divide in the universe?

EDIT: I think I have what would make me want wireless. I would want it ONLY if it gave me the same capabilities & convenience as Whispernet. Otherwise, good old "sneaker net" to move files will be just fine. The thing about Whispernet is it really does let someone who has pretty much no clue about computers, buy ebooks and read them in as transparent a process as you could hope for. I think that's the prime reason for it in a device. Face it if we all want the prices to drop and more ebooks to be published these devices need to be in the hands of as many folks as possible. The current requirement to have a reasonably up to date computer in order to aquire books then transefer them to the reader is not going to work for the gazillion folks who really are lucky to find the power switch and that handy cup holder.