Onyx Boox as monitor

[SnowRipple]

Originally Posted by mdp

That's great, Booxtor. Promising.
I cannot really see well at pixel level, but that looked like "Normal EPD" mode (I cannot remember the technical term, and we would use it in less than a handful of people anyway), not A2 - is that correct?
If it is, that is again impressive. In the only moment in the video that allows to measure lags, I counted one third of a second.

I see you also connected the USB - is that required for the monitor software, or were you just charging it?

Question: does it become more responsive if you use A2?

@mdp 1/3 of a second, do you know maybe how does it compare with the Paperlike Pro or hd?

[mdp]

Originally Posted by SnowRipple

It is still hard to judge if the lagginess is acceptable for standard work..

It will be hard to judge anyway until you use it.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by SnowRipple

@mdp 1/3 of a second, do you know maybe how does it compare with the Paperlike Pro or hd?

Nobody cared to give details about the other product

Anyway, I used remote desktop software with higher lags.

The real practical problem for usability is the mouse cursor

[Booxtor]

Originally Posted by mdp

That's great, Booxtor. Promising.
I cannot really see well at pixel level, but that looked like "Normal EPD" mode (I cannot remember the technical term, and we would use it in less than a handful of people anyway), not A2 - is that correct?
If it is, that is again impressive. In the only moment in the video that allows to measure lags, I counted one third of a second.

I see you also connected the USB - is that required for the monitor software, or were you just charging it?

Question: does it become more responsive if you use A2?

No, I guess it is whether normal mode nor A2. It is kind of Onyx own Floyd mode. The refresh speed is very good, but there are some minor disadvantages in the picture quality in comparison to normal mode. The picture is good enough to read and edit texts or to display pics in 16 shades of gray. In my eyes it was even better, than Floyd mode by Dasung.

USB connection during active Secondary Monitor mode is rather necessary, since in this mode the screen is kind of permanently refreshing thousands of dots and it discharges battery quite fast.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

No, I guess it is whether normal mode nor A2. It is kind of Onyx own Floyd mode. The refresh speed is very good, but there are some minor disadvantages in the picture quality in comparison to normal mode. The picture is good enough to read and edit texts or to display pics in 16 shades of gray. In my eyes it was even better, than Floyd mode by Dasung.

That's excellent. How was your experience using the mouse?

[-Lesnikus-]

Originally Posted by Booxtor

It is kind of Onyx own Floyd mode. The refresh speed is very good, but there are some minor disadvantages in the picture quality in comparison to normal mode. The picture is good enough to read and edit texts or to display pics in 16 shades of gray. In my eyes it was even better, than Floyd mode by Dasung.

I calculated the delay and frame rate of Onyx Max 2 in you video (as secondary PC display mode):
Delay ~300ms
Frame rate ~5-6 fps
In general, this corresponds to what Dasung Paperlike Pro proposes. Unfortunately, this is not fast. Nook Simple Touch showed 8 frames per second. Why are the new 13.3 Carta displays slower at 2 fps than the old screen in the Nook Simple Touch?

[SnowRipple]

If it is on the level of Dasung Pro, it would be really nice!

I wonder if better software like future software upgrade could improve it further..

[mdp]

Originally Posted by -Lesnikus-

Frame rate ~5-6 fps [...] In general, this corresponds to what Dasung Paperlike Pro proposes. Unfortunately, [...] Nook Simple Touch showed 8 frames per second. Why are the new 13.3 Carta displays slower at 2 fps than the old screen in the Nook Simple Touch?

If I can propose an idea, before any knowledgeable information is given: 8fps or 125ms/f is the hard limit of A2, known as the fastest usable mode we had with EPD; if anything is lost, it could be because (as per Booxtor's latest) it is something between A2 - and in fact it does not look like it - and a superior quality mode.

6fps in that case would not necessarily be a bad result given the technology: the geometric mean between 125 and 600 would mean less than that ; )

[mdp]

Originally Posted by -Lesnikus-

Unfortunately, this is not fast.

Also: well, do not forget that you still can use remote desktop solutions, if you want to use A2 and it is not foreseen by the official "monitor" software...
The optimized, official solution is not the only alternative.
It is hard to win over HDMI, but you are not bound - USB serial, USB network, Wi-Fi, BT to connect a full plethora of technologies and products... Suppose - for the sake of it - you are connecting to an application server?
The new device is not only HDMI capable: it is also pretty powerful and complete.

[-Lesnikus-]

Originally Posted by SnowRipple

I wonder if better software like future software upgrade could improve it further..

Interest Ask. It seems to me, no. Dasung and Onyx use the identical display and have the identical speed characteristics. There's a reason! Probably, this is the maximum for the 13.3 Carta e-ink matrix.
It's a mystery to me why Nook in 2011 could display 8 frames per second and not have a delay (when running applications on the device itself, for example, Android games), and a modern 13.3 Carta displays slower at 2 frames per second. And it has a delay of 300 ms, in spite of the presence of HDMI, which, it seems to me, should transmit the signal as quickly as HDMI in the LCD.
Therefore, I do not think that it is worth hoping for a software upgrade could improve it further. The best that can be done is to wait for the next Onyx device to be released next summer- Onyx Boox Max 2 Pro. But I do not know anything about him.

[-Lesnikus-]

Originally Posted by mdp

6fps in that case would not necessarily be a bad result given the technology: the geometric mean between 125 and 600 would mean less than that ; )

Yes, 6 fps is a lot compared to most other e-books. But little compared to the old Nook, and the difference is noticeable. 8 fps look better and more smooth than 6 fps, because at such a low frame rate, each additional frame is very important.

Originally Posted by mdp

Also: well, do not forget that you still can use remote desktop solutions, if you want to use A2 and it is not foreseen by the official "monitor" software...

I have not heard the news that it is possible to switch freely between A2 and other modes in Onyx Boox Max 2. It is unlikely that we will be allowed to freely adjust the subtle characteristics. Even in Nook's fast mode became possible only thanks to a custom patch that unlocked this feature.

Moreover, in Dasung there is an opportunity to switch to A2 mode and this does not give any increase in the frame rate. Probably, the problem really lies in the limitations of the new 13.3 Carta matrix.

Therefore, third-party applications may be able to reduce delay, but they will not increase the frame rate strictly fixed by the device itself

[mdp]

Originally Posted by -Lesnikus-

I have not heard the news that it is possible to switch freely between A2 and other modes in Onyx Boox Max 2. It is unlikely that we will be allowed to freely adjust the subtle characteristics.

In all former devices we have been able to switch from "Normal" to "A2", so it would be news if now we cannot all of a sudden. So, if any change occurred, the manufacturer should have wisely informed. And it would be of gravity if any such feature was removed, because some things work better only in one mode, and some other work decently only in the other one - so, if they did, the device would be crippled. And it would be gratuitous, because I cannot really see any reason why mode switching should ever be disabled. And, I see the icon for mode switching there between "arrow buttons mode switch" and some mysterious new icon which suggests "recent tasks", right between clock and menu, so I would be surprised if it was reused for something different...

[mdp]

Originally Posted by -Lesnikus-

Yes, 6 fps is a lot compared to most other e-books. But little compared to the old Nook, and the difference is noticeable. 8 fps look better and more smooth than 6 fps, because at such a low frame rate, each additional frame is very important.

It is. But, I was very recently shocked to discover, having counted something that perceptually looked different: 4fps is usable, by experience. So, 6fps means 150% as happy.

[-Lesnikus-]

Originally Posted by mdp

It is. But, I was very recently shocked to discover, having counted something that perceptually looked different: 4fps is usable, by experience. So, 6fps means 150% as happy.

I mean watching the videos and play 3D games on e-ink. It's unlikely that you watched the video at 4 fps. To work with text, yes, that's enough, but for video and games ... 8 fps for a minimum of comfort.
Where did you calculate 4 fps? Is this one of the previous Onyx models?

Originally Posted by mdp

In all former devices we have been able to switch from "Normal" to "A2", so it would be news if now we cannot all of a sudden..

Thanks for the clarification, I have never had Onyx products, so I did not know about it. But this is unlikely to increase FPS. Dasung has the same e-ink matrix. In A2 mode this does not increase FPS.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by -Lesnikus-

I mean watching the videos and play 3D games on e-ink. It's unlikely that you watched the video at 4 fps. To work with text, yes, that's enough, but for video and games ... 8 fps for a minimum of comfort.
Where did you calculate 4 fps? Is this one of the previous Onyx models?

Watching videos on the MaxCarta. A clip I took after reading your post, to be sure of the numbers. And I am telling you, already 4 fps is quite usable! But the parameter is the opening lesson of Patrick Winston's course on AI at the MIT...
Not starring Matt Daemon.
Now, here the matter is: there is a good chance, last things considered, that those 4fps are also a limit of the stuck-as-a-nail-in-melting-wax speed of former devices - the video is played locally, through VNC. It is probable that the frame rate limit of the actual display was not reached.

(A note about action games, since you mention it: there, your problem will be lag, not rate. And now, get behind my shoulders for a moment before I prevent sneerers and shout: «Because he can!».)

Originally Posted by -Lesnikus-

But this is unlikely to increase FPS. Dasung has the same e-ink matrix. In A2 mode this does not increase FPS.

Right, but you mention the specific context of Dasungs's monitor functionality, not the absolute context of what is possible on the ES133TT3 - at least, I cannot find documentation nor witnessing. Let's wait and see the new device. Two weeks.