iRex iLiad available for preorder to everyone (who is invited) - Page 3

Alexander Turcic · 06-19-2006, 04:37 PM

Looks like they discovered the loophole, as it doesn't work anymore, at least as of this moment. If you are interested to know, it involved some simple refer(r)er spoofing. Give me a day more to reconsider, and if I decide against buying the iRex, I am more than happy to give out my invite to someone else.

CommanderROR · 06-19-2006, 04:40 PM

I'm not so sure about the design...especially the "back side2 looks really ugly...^^

What really worries me about the Hanlins is the very present "ghosting" that can be seen on most if not all TaKirs V8 pics and the fact that software might or might not get developed for them.
What really worries me about the Iliad is the fact that we have no way of knowing how well the battery will really hold out. Also, with the long boot-time I have no idea how using it for casual reading would feel. also, the lack of a cover and the inability of the company to talk to their prospective customers worry me...

Alexander Turcic · 06-19-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

What really worries me about the Iliad is the fact that we have no way of knowing how well the battery will really hold out.

I agree that is also my main concern. It's not the goal of E Ink to replace batteries just as often as with other display technologies.

CommanderROR · 06-19-2006, 04:56 PM

I just contacted Jinke about the ghosting issue. I checked all the pictures I could find and saw ghosting on all but one. BAD.
Has anyone ever notices ghost-images on the Iliad? I can't remember ever seeing it there...
Let's see what Jinke has to say about this. I pointed them to 2 pictures where the issue is very visible so you might say i'm making accusations with proof here...^^

Maybe we should ask henrycat about ghosting on the Iliad. He has been very quiet for a while now. He also didn't post the videos he wanted to..again...^^
The poor guy must be very busy...or maybe his internet connection broke down again...:-)

Meanwhile, check out the Hanlin images and see for yourself how serious the ghosting is...

TaKir · 06-19-2006, 05:43 PM

Here you can see some gosts at Iliad )) Look below the last line (link to page3) - white squares...
http://ilimas.com.sapo.pt/IMG_1435.JPG
and here too... (to the leftand below from "Dear Customers") - white squares too...
http://ilimas.com.sapo.pt/IMG_1428.JPG

So, it is not a problem of Jinke or Librie - I guess new Sony Reader will have this "gosts".

But it doesn't look so "strong" in reality. And doesn't disturb reading at all ))

ath · 06-20-2006, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaKir

But it doesn't look so "strong" in reality. And doesn't disturb reading at all ))

From the photos, it gives the impression of show-through in printed books: the paper is slightly too thin, and lines not in register, so the 'shadows' of the lines on the next/previous page are faintly visible.

Although it's something to avoid, it's rarely something that disturbs the reading process seriously (though one of the photos with big box 'show-through' was rather bad.)

I pick up the first book on my table -- the Niven collection 'Three Books of Known Space' from Del Rey -- and the show-through is fairly obvious, once the eyes get tuned-off from the text. I think this is the first time I've noticed it myself, though.

I pick up a volume of Dashiell Hammett from Library of America, and show-through is very pronounced, due to the thin paper. Yet, when I'm reading the book, instead of just looking at it, I don't see the show-through except at chapter headings, where there is a large area of unprinted page.

If that's the level of ghosting present, I shouldn't worry about it. Digital photos are sometimes auto-sharpened (my camera always does that), and this would over-emphasize any ghosting in the image, making it difficult to judge the real effect from the images. It might be better to compare with a ordinary, modern book -- better, worse or the same?

TaKir · 06-20-2006, 02:19 AM

2ath

You got the idea absolutely right! I have no books, in which there are no gosts at all )))
But it never takes my attention while reading...

Some books have more visible gosts from the back side of a paper, some (very-very seldom) almost have no gosts.
And nobody cares of them...

I've seen no gosts only in art-books (about museums, countries etc,) and in ads papers ))) They use expensive and thick paper (>120g/sq.m).

But... If you will scan your books... You'll find gosts even on such expensive paper ))) For having no gosts while scanning, you should put a piece of black paper from the back side of a page...

Just checked - most p-books, magazines, etc, in my collection have more visible gosts comparing with Jinke...

CommanderROR · 06-20-2006, 03:52 AM

Reply from Jinke:

Yes, the current display shows the Ghosting. Now eInk and PVI is improving the displaying effects through technology. The current effective method is “double clear display”, but this will reduce the refreshing speed and the display will flash, the reader won’t feel good about that. After we compare the effects of “double clear display” with “one clear display ”, we still adopt “one clear display”, the strong ghosting you mentioned only happened when you first turn the page after you don’t read the book a long time. When you read the book in normal speed and turn the page, the ghosting will gradually be lightened.

Snappy! · 06-20-2006, 04:11 AM

Incidentally, is it possible that the "greyness" of Sony reader and hanlin is worsen due to the contrast or lack thereof between the white casing and the "white" of the screen itself, while iRex's black case increases the perception of "whiteness" in the "white" of the screen.

I've seen some optical illusions where two blocks of grey appear vastly different but are in fact the same color.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion

Simultaneous Contrast Illusion. The grey bar is the same shade throughout

ElaHuguet · 06-20-2006, 05:08 AM

Hi Alex,

If you decide you're not buying, I am REALLY interested in buying the iLiad, only thing stopping me is the lack of invite.

Regards, Daniela.

CommanderROR · 06-20-2006, 05:09 AM

Exactly what I always say Snappy.
dark frames for bright screens...^^

Interesting observation: The Ghosting I saw on the Iliad screenshots seems to be very different from the Ghosting the V8 produces.

Might be that this is because of the pictures that were taken, but I'd love to hear Henrycat's comments on the whole issue.

watcha · 06-20-2006, 12:47 PM

I'm interested to know what those who plan to buy are going to read on the reader. Are there e-books out there that'll work on the Iliad? I lost faith years ago when Microsoft changed the rules and books that I'd bought to read on my Ipaq pda would no longer open. Although recognising pdf files, will the Iliad cope with books sold to be read with Adobe Reader? Are there text only books? pdf only books? Yours in ignorance!

Riocaz · 06-20-2006, 01:04 PM

The iLiad will read a variety of document types: pdf (though not encrypted, i believe), html/xhtml, txt etc.

More details can be found here:

https://www.mobileread.com/eink/

Also the iLiad and the Hanlin (V2) are linux based. As such "homebrew" readers will almost certainly follow soon after launch.

VillageReader · 06-20-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watcha

I'm interested to know what those who plan to buy are going to read on the reader. Are there e-books out there that'll work on the Iliad? I lost faith years ago when Microsoft changed the rules and books that I'd bought to read on my Ipaq pda would no longer open. Although recognising pdf files, will the Iliad cope with books sold to be read with Adobe Reader? Are there text only books? pdf only books? Yours in ignorance!

Project Gutenberg is up to over 18k books available as .txt and .htm files.

Also, see the anouncement today (MoblieRead from page) on the new standard that should resolve most protection issues (provided they don't force you to update your device every 6 months). A lot of people seem to be on board with this standard.

CommanderROR · 06-20-2006, 06:56 PM

About Homebrew software...

I'm hoping very much that this will happen for both the Hanlin and the Iliad.

But:

to be of interest for programmers, a device needs to be at least moderately popular. The trouble is, that eink readers are actually losing popularity due to the numerous delays. If Jinke manages to get their Samples out at the end of June (meaning: sometime now...) and their distributers manage to quickly "regionalize" the devices (without breaking them...) so that it actually starts selling in August, together with the Sony Reader, and their SDK is good, then they might still captures some of the crowd. Many unpredictable factors there...
LEt's hope they do...

06-20-2006, 02:19 AM	#37
TaKir Keine Ursache! )) Posts: 146 Karma: 63 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Almost everywhere Device: Lbook V8 & V3_Vizplex	2ath You got the idea absolutely right! I have no books, in which there are no gosts at all ))) But it never takes my attention while reading... Some books have more visible gosts from the back side of a paper, some (very-very seldom) almost have no gosts. And nobody cares of them... I've seen no gosts only in art-books (about museums, countries etc,) and in ads papers ))) They use expensive and thick paper (>120g/sq.m). But... If you will scan your books... You'll find gosts even on such expensive paper ))) For having no gosts while scanning, you should put a piece of black paper from the back side of a page... Just checked - most p-books, magazines, etc, in my collection have more visible gosts comparing with Jinke... Last edited by TaKir; 06-20-2006 at 02:34 AM.

06-20-2006, 05:09 AM	#41
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	Exactly what I always say Snappy. dark frames for bright screens...^^ Interesting observation: The Ghosting I saw on the Iliad screenshots seems to be very different from the Ghosting the V8 produces. Might be that this is because of the pictures that were taken, but I'd love to hear Henrycat's comments on the whole issue. Last edited by CommanderROR; 06-20-2006 at 05:14 AM.

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06-19-2006, 04:37 PM	#31
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,175 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	Looks like they discovered the loophole, as it doesn't work anymore, at least as of this moment. If you are interested to know, it involved some simple refer(r)er spoofing. Give me a day more to reconsider, and if I decide against buying the iRex, I am more than happy to give out my invite to someone else.

06-19-2006, 04:40 PM	#32
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	I'm not so sure about the design...especially the "back side2 looks really ugly...^^ What really worries me about the Hanlins is the very present "ghosting" that can be seen on most if not all TaKirs V8 pics and the fact that software might or might not get developed for them. What really worries me about the Iliad is the fact that we have no way of knowing how well the battery will really hold out. Also, with the long boot-time I have no idea how using it for casual reading would feel. also, the lack of a cover and the inability of the company to talk to their prospective customers worry me...

06-19-2006, 04:56 PM	#34
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	I just contacted Jinke about the ghosting issue. I checked all the pictures I could find and saw ghosting on all but one. BAD. Has anyone ever notices ghost-images on the Iliad? I can't remember ever seeing it there... Let's see what Jinke has to say about this. I pointed them to 2 pictures where the issue is very visible so you might say i'm making accusations with proof here...^^ Maybe we should ask henrycat about ghosting on the Iliad. He has been very quiet for a while now. He also didn't post the videos he wanted to..again...^^ The poor guy must be very busy...or maybe his internet connection broke down again...:-) Meanwhile, check out the Hanlin images and see for yourself how serious the ghosting is...

06-19-2006, 05:43 PM	#35
TaKir Keine Ursache! )) Posts: 146 Karma: 63 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Almost everywhere Device: Lbook V8 & V3_Vizplex	Here you can see some gosts at Iliad )) Look below the last line (link to page3) - white squares... http://ilimas.com.sapo.pt/IMG_1435.JPG and here too... (to the leftand below from "Dear Customers") - white squares too... http://ilimas.com.sapo.pt/IMG_1428.JPG So, it is not a problem of Jinke or Librie - I guess new Sony Reader will have this "gosts". But it doesn't look so "strong" in reality. And doesn't disturb reading at all ))

06-20-2006, 03:52 AM	#38
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	Reply from Jinke: Yes, the current display shows the Ghosting. Now eInk and PVI is improving the displaying effects through technology. The current effective method is “double clear display”, but this will reduce the refreshing speed and the display will flash, the reader won’t feel good about that. After we compare the effects of “double clear display” with “one clear display ”, we still adopt “one clear display”, the strong ghosting you mentioned only happened when you first turn the page after you don’t read the book a long time. When you read the book in normal speed and turn the page, the ghosting will gradually be lightened.

06-20-2006, 04:11 AM	#39
Snappy! Addict Posts: 260 Karma: 4256 Join Date: Feb 2006 Device: SHARP Zaurus C1000	Incidentally, is it possible that the "greyness" of Sony reader and hanlin is worsen due to the contrast or lack thereof between the white casing and the "white" of the screen itself, while iRex's black case increases the perception of "whiteness" in the "white" of the screen. I've seen some optical illusions where two blocks of grey appear vastly different but are in fact the same color. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_illusion Simultaneous Contrast Illusion. The grey bar is the same shade throughout

06-20-2006, 05:08 AM	#40
ElaHuguet iLiad freak Posts: 339 Karma: 243 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Mallorca, Spain Device: iRex iLiad	Hi Alex, If you decide you're not buying, I am REALLY interested in buying the iLiad, only thing stopping me is the lack of invite. Regards, Daniela.

06-20-2006, 12:47 PM	#42
watcha Not so junior! Posts: 29 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: UK Device: iRex Iliad	I'm interested to know what those who plan to buy are going to read on the reader. Are there e-books out there that'll work on the Iliad? I lost faith years ago when Microsoft changed the rules and books that I'd bought to read on my Ipaq pda would no longer open. Although recognising pdf files, will the Iliad cope with books sold to be read with Adobe Reader? Are there text only books? pdf only books? Yours in ignorance!

06-20-2006, 01:04 PM	#43
Riocaz Fulfilled but not by iRex Posts: 932 Karma: 286846 Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Device: Far too many	The iLiad will read a variety of document types: pdf (though not encrypted, i believe), html/xhtml, txt etc. More details can be found here: https://www.mobileread.com/eink/ Also the iLiad and the Hanlin (V2) are linux based. As such "homebrew" readers will almost certainly follow soon after launch.

06-20-2006, 06:56 PM	#45
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	About Homebrew software... I'm hoping very much that this will happen for both the Hanlin and the Iliad. But: to be of interest for programmers, a device needs to be at least moderately popular. The trouble is, that eink readers are actually losing popularity due to the numerous delays. If Jinke manages to get their Samples out at the end of June (meaning: sometime now...) and their distributers manage to quickly "regionalize" the devices (without breaking them...) so that it actually starts selling in August, together with the Sony Reader, and their SDK is good, then they might still captures some of the crowd. Many unpredictable factors there... LEt's hope they do...

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