Free Firefly novel "My Own Kind of Freedom"

[carandol]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

What do you watch the DVD's on?

Dale

When I'm on my own, I watch the on the laptop on my lap. If I'm watching with others, I plug my laptop into the big monitor we have in the lounge for this very purpose.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I've never understood how there hasn't been a single SF motion picture or TV show that has really transcended the genre audience, to the extent that people who don't normally watch SF would watch on a regular basis and agree, "Yeah, that's damn good television." Perhaps shows like Lost come closest, because they don't obviously present themselves as science fiction... but usually, shows like that tend to end up being labeled action/adventure, another non-respected genre.

It depends on what the mass audience considers "damn good television".

A friend of mine who has written a bit for TV believes that the stuff that tends to be popular is essentially about people helping others, and points to the ongoing popularity of cop shows, lawyer shows, and medical shows as prime time drama. Those all feature protagonists either actively helping others, or trying to prevent others from coming to harm.

There have been a few attempts to produce SF TV that does that sort of crossover, being cops in space or doctors in space, but none have lasted more than a couple of episodes.
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Dennis

[Dave Berk]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

It depends on what the mass audience considers "damn good television".

A friend of mine who has written a bit for TV believes that the stuff that tends to be popular is essentially about people helping others, and points to the ongoing popularity of cop shows, lawyer shows, and medical shows as prime time drama. Those all feature protagonists either actively helping others, or trying to prevent others from coming to harm.

There have been a few attempts to produce SF TV that does that sort of crossover, being cops in space or doctors in space, but none have lasted more than a couple of episodes.
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Dennis

That's a very interesting and encouraging idea. I would really like to believe that. But how do you explain the popularity of shows like Survivor and many others?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by simple dave

That's a very interesting and encouraging idea. I would really like to believe that. But how do you explain the popularity of shows like Survivor and many others?

Because stuff that caters to our baser instincts is also popular. I never said that shows about people helping others were the only popular dramas -- simply that it was one thing that made a drama popular. It's not, alas, the only thing.
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Dennis

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by simple dave

That's a very interesting and encouraging idea. I would really like to believe that. But how do you explain the popularity of shows like Survivor and many others?

For the same reason that tabloids make money: a "spectacle" will always draw a crowd.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

A friend of mine who has written a bit for TV believes that the stuff that tends to be popular is essentially about people helping others, and points to the ongoing popularity of cop shows, lawyer shows, and medical shows as prime time drama. Those all feature protagonists either actively helping others, or trying to prevent others from coming to harm.

I always thought that the popularity of law and medical shows was in the sheer drama of life and death, and the satisfaction of seeing bad people get caught... the "cynical" side of the "good people getting help" coin... but I guess it amounts to the same thing.

Still, shows about good people maintaining their own good, and occasionally helping others with like interests (The Waltons, Little House, etc) have been as popular as cop and lawyer shows, at times more popular. The popularity of law and medical shows over other program types has been a cyclical thing, and probably still is. And essentially, how many shows are not about helping someone... even if it's just yourself?

I always thought the mark of a successful dramatic show (and ofttimes a comedy) was in having characters the audience could identify with and like, and therefore have a visceral stake in their successes and failures.

'Course, I don't write for TV...

[Bob Russell]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

'Course, I don't write for TV...

Now that's too bad! It would be neat to have a new infusion of ideas into TV scripts.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I always thought the mark of a successful dramatic show (and ofttimes a comedy) was in having characters the audience could identify with and like, and therefore have a visceral stake in their successes and failures.

'Course, I don't write for TV...

No, you're right.

But I think about a comment Samuel R. Delany made a while back, talking about romances. The traditional view of the romance is that the plot is "Boy mets girl. Boy loses girl. Boy gets girl." Chip pointed out that that wasn't true. Yes, it happened, but "boy met girl, boy lost girl, boy got girl" in the context of doing something else. Boy meets girl wasn't the plot, it was the sub-plot. The Luna Books line Harlequin has been publishing revolves around that premise, where romance may not even be a sub-plot, and may be incidental to what is taking place in the foreground.

I think my friend has a point, but I think another part of it is that the daily work of police, firefighters, lawyers, and doctors is the stuff of drama. While it's certainly possible to make a family show ala the Waltons with characters the audience can indentify with, the difficulty is the drama. I'd like to think I'm someone with an assortment of virtues an audience could identify with, but my daily life is (largely deliberately) dull and boring, and so it would be with most of us. We'd be poor source material for a dramatic series. (Though we might be the stuff of comedy.)

Cop shows, lawyer shows, and doctor shows are simply easier places to start in crafting a dramatic series, because the drama is inherent in the occupations.
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Dennis

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

Now that's too bad! It would be neat to have a new infusion of ideas into TV scripts.

ABC, are you listening?

[Penforhire]

DMc, but the basic content of the Seinfeld series was the stuff of our boring lives, just stretched to absurdity. I think the audience was roped in by how close it got to our daily lives, similar to how the Dilbert comic strip is a scary-close parody of normal office life.

I suppose it is harder to script those to entertain as well as a cop drama. Life-and-death has an immediate natural attraction, at least as spectacle.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

DMc, but the basic content of the Seinfeld series was the stuff of our boring lives, just stretched to absurdity. I think the audience was roped in by how close it got to our daily lives, similar to how the Dilbert comic strip is a scary-close parody of normal office life.

Yes. But note Seinfeld was comedy, not drama, and I was specifically talking about drama.

There are other genres that have fallen out of fashion which used to be mined for dramatic content. There was a time when it was hard to turn on a TV and not have a western or a war story somewhere on the lineup.

And I probably should mention the soap opera, which mines romance for drama on a daily basis.

I suppose it is harder to script those to entertain as well as a cop drama. Life-and-death has an immediate natural attraction, at least as spectacle.

Yes. I think they are popular because they are inherent sources of drama that everyone is familiar with.
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Dennis

[tsgreer]

I was in my early 20's when Star Trek: TNG first came on and it remains my all time fav sci-fi. Season one and two sorta sucked, but from season three on, I loved it. That and the X-files are my favs of all time.

But I never really liked the Star Trek movies, classic or TNG. The new one coming out may be interesting because of it's "reboot the franchise" possibilities, but I'm a bit skeptical. I hope it rocks though!

And I like the new Battlestar Galactica for the very reason that they didn't make it anything like the 70's version. I was laughing when I first heard that they were remaking it, but I had to eat crow, because I love this version. I only recently got the DVD and started watching. I thought the 70's was horrible and I was a little kid, so it's not like I had great taste or anything. But then again, I was a HUGE Star Wars fan and it seemed like the old BG was just a cheap imitation.

I mean, now they have just remade The Knight Rider. Why are they remaking all of these really bad 70's and 80's shows?! They did great with the new BG, but I don't think I'll be checking out the new Knight Rider. The first one was bad enough and the whole idea is lame IMHO. Um, a supercar helps a guy fight bad guys? What?!?

By the way, the guy who wrote and came up with the the new Battlestar Galactica vision wrote a couple of really good episodes of Star Trek: TNG, including the final episode, All Good Things...

He also wrote for DS9 and Voyager. But if IRC, he got fed up with the bosses while on Voyager and quit. But he wrote the new BG mini-series that started it and maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much. Not sure if he still writes for them though.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by tsgreer

I was in my early 20's when Star Trek: TNG first came on and it remains my all time fav sci-fi. Season one and two sorta sucked, but from season three on, I loved it. That and the X-files are my favs of all time.

I think season three was when they finally ran out of archived scripts that had been purchased for the original Star Trek series and never filmed, and were revised and produced as TNG scripts.

I liked the early X-Files when if was a couple of FBI agents investigating cases that couldn't be explained save by paranormal means. When they introduced the UFO story line, I lost patience and interest very quickly.

I have an old friend who is a UFO bug, and is firmly convinced There Are Things The Government Isn't Telling Us about the topic. After listening to him go on about it, I said "You know, if there really were UFOs that had visited us in the past, and the government knew about it and had contact with them, and I was the government official responsible for deciding how to handle it, I might well decide to cover it up, and the reason would be people like you!"

And I like the new Battlestar Galactica for the very reason that they didn't make it anything like the 70's version. I was laughing when I first heard that they were remaking it, but I had to eat crow, because I love this version. I only recently got the DVD and started watching. I thought the 70's was horrible and I was a little kid, so it's not like I had great taste or anything. But then again, I was a HUGE Star Wars fan and it seemed like the old BG was just a cheap imitation.

I recall the original BG, and had similar reactions to a remake. My SO watches it, and people I know whose taste I trust think it's well done, but I've nevevr quite summoned the energy to try it.

I mean, now they have just remade The Knight Rider. Why are they remaking all of these really bad 70's and 80's shows?! They did great with the new BG, but I don't think I'll be checking out the new Knight Rider. The first one was bad enough and the whole idea is lame IMHO. Um, a supercar helps a guy fight bad guys? What?!?

They are remaking them because they were popular before, and hope lightning will strike twice, drawing the folks who were fans the first time and getting new ones as well.
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Dennis

[tsgreer]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

They are remaking them because they were popular before, and hope lightning will strike twice, drawing the folks who were fans the first time and getting new ones as well.
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Dennis

Yeah, and sometimes it can be done well, but for the most part it doesn't really work out. It does frustrate me that they keep regurgitating ideas when there are so many great books and ideas out there.

But I suppose regurgitating ideas isn't always bad. I LOVE the series Heroes even though it's basically a tv series of the X-men.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I think season three was when they finally ran out of archived scripts that had been purchased for the original Star Trek series and never filmed, and were revised and produced as TNG scripts.

Don't forget, they almost revived the series before the first movie, in the seventies I think, and had probably written many of those TNG scripts then, not in the sixties. I think also the actors took the 1st season just to get used to what in hell they were doing in front of all those buttons and green screens. They didn't start to get past the character synopses on paper, and really act the characters, until about the middle of season 2.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I recall the original BG, and had similar reactions to a remake.

Me, too: Cheap Star Wars ripoff, all the way.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

They are remaking them because they were popular before, and hope lightning will strike twice, drawing the folks who were fans the first time and getting new ones as well.

Much like remade movies.