Amazon vs. Hachette Update - It's About Price

[SteveEisenberg]

This new anti-Amazon open letter has an impressive list of signators:

http://authorsunited.net/

P.S. Is the length of the signator list, or the number of prominent authors on it, a reason to side with Hachette? Of course not. Just as the number of prominent posters here, with contrasting opinions, is no reason to side with Amazon

P.P.S. Googling some more, the letter mostly is the same as one from July; they just have more signators now, and plan to advertise the text:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/b...to-amazon.html

[DuckieTigger]

Steve, no it is not who posts here that should convince people to side with Amazon. You should side with Amazon for these 2 reasons:

• you are a customer of Amazon
• you buy ebooks from Amazon

All of a sudden Amazon is not customer friendly by demanding lower prices to customers? Singling out Hachette when they are the onLy ones needing a new contract atm? The letter is nice propaganda, though.

[ApK]

I'm confused about one point:

Is that letter complaining that Amazon is NOT discounting Hachette's books?
Isn't Hachette on the side that wants agency pricing, to PREVENT Amazon from discounting?

[eschwartz]

That page has seven links to articles discussing the issue.

Five got to the NYTimes, 4 of which are by the same person.
1 is on the Wall Street Journal, and ironically is unavailable behind a paywall . Oops, I guess we can forget that one.
And 1 is on the LATimes

I sense a great diversity of opinion.

[pwalker8]

They aren't customer friendly if they are demanding a price that below the substitutable level. That is the fundamental issue here. One of the fundamental truths of markets is that when you have a race to the bottom with regards to price, then companies start leaving the market for more profitable endeavors.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

They aren't customer friendly if they are demanding a price that below the substitutable level. That is the fundamental issue here. One of the fundamental truths of markets is that when you have a race to the bottom with regards to price, then companies start leaving the market for more profitable endeavors.

$9.99 is hardly a race to the bottom. Both the publishers and Amazon still make plenty of money at that price.

(And we keep not mentioning authors, of course. But they don't matter, do they? )

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

This new anti-Amazon open letter has an impressive list of signators:

http://authorsunited.net/

P.S. Is the length of the signator list, or the number of prominent authors on it, a reason to side with Hachette? Of course not. Just as the number of prominent posters here, with contrasting opinions, is no reason to side with Amazon

P.P.S. Googling some more, the letter mostly is the same as one from July; they just have more signators now, and plan to advertise the text:

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/b...to-amazon.html

Do those authors care about their readers who read eBooks? If Hatchette wins this battle, Hatchette is going back to agency pricing and that means higher prices. As a customer, why would I want higher prices? I don't want higher prices.

I think these authors just aren't getting what Hatchette is trying to do and if they really knew, they'd not have signed.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

You should side with Amazon for these 2 reasons:

• you are a customer of Amazon
• you buy ebooks from Amazon

I've only bought one eBook from Amazon, for my own reading, since buying my first Kindle four years ago. Most of the reading matter I buy from Amazon is periodicals. For me, the paper book form factor is acceptable; where mobile device reading is far superior is periodicals, especially as compared to paper newspapers.

But, yea, I am an Amazon customer. I also am a Hachette customer, albeit, for the most part, indirectly, through library taxes and fees.

As for people who do buy major publisher eBooks, I think that the reason major publisher eBooks are, generally and with exceptions, superior to indie books is tied up with the price structure. If Amazon gains control over pricing, I think that author advances per title will decline, forcing them to churn out titles more and more quickly. This would result in shorter books of lower quality. I'd rather wait for a higher quality book to, perhaps a few years after publication, get to where I can afford it, than to push major publishers closer to the indie model.

Originally Posted by ApK

I'm confused about one point:

Is that letter complaining that Amazon is NOT discounting Hachette's books?
Isn't Hachette on the side that wants agency pricing, to PREVENT Amazon from discounting?

I don't know if there is a current dispute between Amazon and Hachette over agency, or if that part is resolved. Either way, in the United States, agency is about eBooks, whereas the lack of discounting has more been on the paperback side.

The authors are complaining about a pattern where readers are more or less subtly discouraged from buying Hachette books, such as by saying that shipping will take 3-5 weeks, or even longer, and with implausibly frequent estimate shifting when wholesalers actually get special orders out in a far shorter time.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

If Amazon gains control over pricing, I think that author advances per title will decline, forcing them to churn out titles more and more quickly.

So what?! Compensation for authors should be based on actual sales; not some perceived value.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

$9.99 is hardly a race to the bottom. Both the publishers and Amazon still make plenty of money at that price.

(And we keep not mentioning authors, of course. But they don't matter, do they? )

Authors don't matter? Why is Amazon suggesting more money to authors at $9.99 per copy? Up to Hachette of course which they would not do. Does not make sense that they don't take a cut on their profit since ebooks don't carry any risks like unsold pbooks have.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Authors don't matter? Why is Amazon suggesting more money to authors at $9.99 per copy? Up to Hachette of course which they would not do. Does not make sense that they don't take a cut on their profit since ebooks don't carry any risks like unsold pbooks have.

And if I were talking to people who think like Amazon does, I wouldn't have said that. Complete with eye-roll and all.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And if I were talking to people who think like Amazon does, I wouldn't have said that. Complete with eye-roll and all.

Oh the eye roll. I thought that was because you were annoyed with lack of talk about authors.

Someone should find out what percentage Hachette authors signed.

[crossi]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

I don't know if there is a current dispute between Amazon and Hachette over agency, or if that part is resolved. Either way, in the United States, agency is about eBooks, whereas the lack of discounting has more been on the paperback side.

The authors are complaining about a pattern where readers are more or less subtly discouraged from buying Hachette books, such as by saying that shipping will take 3-5 weeks, or even longer, and with implausibly frequent estimate shifting when wholesalers actually get special orders out in a far shorter time.

Big Deal. People who order paper books online can easily go the the Barnes & Noble site if they feel Amazon isn't discounting the paper book enough. Or simply go to the Barnes & Noble store and save the shipping. And Amazon isn't delaying passing the book requests on to Hachette. After that it is up to Hachette to get the book to the customer. If they are quick the customer will simply get a nice surprise when it comes earlier than was predicted.

As for the letter, one wonders just how much pressure Hachette is putting on their authors to sign it. One understands the big authors who are getting a sweet deal from Hachette. They want to keep the status quo as their interests align with Hachettes'. Midlist authors who get really small advances, no promotion and no hardback release should really be on Amazon's side as it would benefit them a lot more.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by crossi

Big Deal. People who order paper books online can easily go the the Barnes & Noble site if they feel Amazon isn't discounting the paper book enough. Or simply go to the Barnes & Noble store and save the shipping. And Amazon isn't delaying passing the book requests on to Hachette. After that it is up to Hachette to get the book to the customer. If they are quick the customer will simply get a nice surprise when it comes earlier than was predicted.

Also, it's important to note that Amazon would usually lay in a stock of copies so they can fulfill it themselves -- that is one of the benefits of having a reliable contract, Amazon knows they are guaranteed the right to sell the book for a certain time frame. They don't have to worry about having a massive stock they cannot do anything with. Wanna bet Hachette would've protested against their books being sold on Amazon and had them taken down, if they could dump a huge load on Amazon?

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Authors don't matter? Why is Amazon suggesting more money to authors at $9.99 per copy? Up to Hachette of course which they would not do. Does not make sense that they don't take a cut on their profit since ebooks don't carry any risks like unsold pbooks have.

First, Hachette doesn't publish a book in just ebook format; it publishes a book in both print and ebook and the economics of a title is not limited to or segregated by a specific format. The profit that Hachette earns has to cover costs incurred by all of a title's formats and also company overhead and shareholder interests. You cannot separate a title's risks into convenient categories by format.

Second, in anticipation of the argument that Hachette should just stop publishing print books, it needs to be remembered that in the overall publishing market, roughly 60% of all sales of titles by traditional publishers are print sales, not ebook sales. Although many -- but not all -- MobileReaders prefer and only buy ebooks, that is not a true picture of the book market. MobileReaders who are participating in these discussions are not representative of the book-buying population overall.

Third, while Amazon wants to encourage ebook sales, not everyone else does. Regardless of whether one agrees with such a decision, it is as legitimate a business decision to not encourage ebook sales as it is to encourage ebook sales, especially in the current market where the majority of sales are still print.

Finally, the bottom line is that authors do not have to sign on with Hachette or any other publisher. And when they do sign on, they are aware of the terms. That they continue to sign on or want to sign on with a BPH is an indication, at least to me, that there is still perceived value in being published by a BPH and that authors view that value as part of the compensation they receive.

So far, Amazon has only brought to the table suggestions that cost Hachette money. I'm waiting for Amazon to bring some sacrifice of its own to the table.