Amazon has banned my account - my Kindle is now a (partial) brick. - Page 10

HarryT · 04-08-2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I think they probably have a system for detecting 'demanding customers'; and that they're tightening up their definition of 'demanding'.

And it's just one more part of a pattern where Amazon are concerned.

Can you honestly say that you'd heard of a single case of this occuring before you read this thread? I hadn't. One instance does not a pattern make

.

igorsk · 04-08-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The story that Amazon flagged an account, and that when the customer politely queried it, they reinstated it? Bit of a "non-story" when it comes down to it, isn't it, and simply shows that Amazon have some kind of automated system for detecting "scammers", which one would expect any large retailer to have.

"Flagging" is one thing, outright banning without any warning is quite different.

HarryT · 04-08-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

"Flagging" is one thing, outright banning without any warning is quite different.

Is it? Access was blocked due to suspicious activity. Credit card companies do the same thing all the time. I don't see that one can "blame" Amazon for it; their response to Ian's querying it shows that they have an efficient system for responding to the resulting queries, and that's what seems to me to matter.

It makes me happy, as an Amazon customer, that they DO do this, to tell you the truth.

astra · 04-08-2009, 08:05 AM

Ian,

Could you tell please how many TVs and DSLRs have yo returned in the recent years? Let's say in the last 2 years?

Please.
Thank you.

lilac_jive · 04-08-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you honestly say that you'd heard of a single case of this occuring before you read this thread? I hadn't. One instance does not a pattern make

.

I had. Someone posted the consumerist article about a massive bannage and I remembered reading it.

v1m · 04-08-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern

I find it rather, well, odd that anyone should "plan to be a lifelong customer." Under what social obligation is there that any customer should be or ought to be a lifelong customer? If we believe that we should be a lifelong customer to a corporation, in which western ideology has made into the likes of a person with rights and values, then we are falling for a belief that is untenable.

Agreed.

And yes, I'm sorry to hear about this, too.

Surely Ian's crummy experience with Amazon is a reminder: what Amazon has set up is a kind of book feudalism. Bezos is lord and one is the Kindle renter-peasant. Read the Amazon license terms; nasty.

DRM is a blight on digital books but Amazon's unique mischief has now raised the ante.

Octochick · 04-08-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you honestly say that you'd heard of a single case of this occuring before you read this thread? I hadn't. One instance does not a pattern make

.

Here you go... http://www.ketv.com/video/17405717/index.html

HarryT · 04-08-2009, 10:03 AM

Oh, I know (now) that it has occured before. All I'm saying is that it has not been sufficiently common that it has been perceived by people as being a problem, and I don't really see that this one case changes that. I mean no disrespect whatsoever to Ian, but it is understandable that requesting refunds on two TVs and "several" high-end cameras is going to "raise flags", even if it has been done perfectly legitimately.

wallcraft · 04-08-2009, 10:30 AM

When Amazon was just a retailer, selling only other manufacturer's stuff, banning was a perfectly reasonable tactic. After all, if one retailer refuses your business there are plenty of others to choose from. However, now they have co-mingled their retailer business with their Kindle business. When they advertise 260K titles from the Kindle Store and when they are the only Kindle-compatible source for the vast majority of those titles, then banning a Kindle owner from Amazon is banning them from those 260K titles. The small print of their terms of service may say that they don't have to sell you those titles, but not doing so clearly reduces the value of any Kindle you may own.

When the Kindle came out I was not overly concerned about Amazon getting out of the ebook business, and thus rendering existing Kindle ebooks obsolete, even though they had done exactly this once before. It never occurred to me that Amazon could stay in the ebook business, but only for Kindle owners they "liked".

Nate the great · 04-08-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Oh, I know (now) that it has occured before. All I'm saying is that it has not been sufficiently common that it has been perceived by people as being a problem, and I don't really see that this one case changes that. I mean no disrespect whatsoever to Ian, but it is understandable that requesting refunds on two TVs and "several" high-end cameras is going to "raise flags", even if it has been done perfectly legitimately.

Harry, Amazon has been capriciously terminating accounts without warning or explanation. The number of people it happens to doesn't matter becuase what we are seeing is obviously Amazon's standard business practice. Amazon considers this to be normal behavior. Don't you see the problem in that?

RickyMaveety · 04-08-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you honestly say that you'd heard of a single case of this occuring before you read this thread? I hadn't. One instance does not a pattern make

.

After reading this post, and doing a little research (you really should try it, Harry, it might make a difference in what you post), there have been many, many instances, enough to make a pattern. These have been reported in the Consumerist as well as on several other sites.

The fact that you hadn't heard of it does not surprise me. I get the distinct feeling that if it isn't reported in whatever newspaper you choose to read, it just doesn't happen as far as you're concerned.

TallMomof2 · 04-08-2009, 10:54 AM

Wow, this is really scary. At 50 I'm still naive enough to believe that big entities are concerned about the average person. I have almost 1/2 TB of purchased video from Amazon and many Kindle ebooks (most of them <$1.00 US or free). Well, no more DRMed content for me if it can't be stripped and stored for personal use.

RickyMaveety · 04-08-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

Wow, this is really scary. At 50 I'm still naive enough to believe that big entities are concerned about the average person. I have almost 1/2 TB of purchased video from Amazon and many Kindle ebooks (most of them <$1.00 US or free). Well, no more DRMed content for me if it can't be stripped and stored for personal use.

Welcome to the real world ... they don't care one teensy whit. Not even a small segment of a portion of a teensy whit.

HarryT · 04-08-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

After reading this post, and doing a little research (you really should try it, Harry, it might make a difference in what you post), there have been many, many instances, enough to make a pattern. These have been reported in the Consumerist as well as on several other sites.

Yes, I know that, but how many instances of this had you personally encountered BEFORE you did your research - that was the point that I was making.

Quote:

The fact that you hadn't heard of it does not surprise me. I get the distinct feeling that if it isn't reported in whatever newspaper you choose to read, it just doesn't happen as far as you're concerned.

You could not be more incorrect. And please lay off the personal attacks.

Daithi · 04-08-2009, 11:22 AM

My knee-jerk reaction was to get pissed at Amazon, but now I think I'm coming around to Harry's point of view. If I find a store that has excellent customer service and doesn't give me a hassle when I need to return an item then I will make sure to shop in that store. Unfortunately some people will abuse the excellent customer service. For example, nitpicking customers that return laptops because they can hear the fan running, or flat screen TVs because the color isn't crisp enough, or a whole host of subjective complaints where the customer sees a manufaturing defect but where the manufacturer disagrees. At some point this store with great customer service will have a choice -- revise their policies so that returns for ALL customers are not as favorable, or refuse access to customers that are abusing the system. I prefer they do the latter, so bottom line, I'm with Harry. (A warning would be nice though.)

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04-08-2009, 08:05 AM	#139
astra The Introvert Posts: 8,307 Karma: 1000077497 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United Kingdom Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500	Ian, Could you tell please how many TVs and DSLRs have yo returned in the recent years? Let's say in the last 2 years? Please. Thank you.

04-08-2009, 10:03 AM	#143
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Oh, I know (now) that it has occured before. All I'm saying is that it has not been sufficiently common that it has been perceived by people as being a problem, and I don't really see that this one case changes that. I mean no disrespect whatsoever to Ian, but it is understandable that requesting refunds on two TVs and "several" high-end cameras is going to "raise flags", even if it has been done perfectly legitimately.

04-08-2009, 10:30 AM	#144
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,977 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	When Amazon was just a retailer, selling only other manufacturer's stuff, banning was a perfectly reasonable tactic. After all, if one retailer refuses your business there are plenty of others to choose from. However, now they have co-mingled their retailer business with their Kindle business. When they advertise 260K titles from the Kindle Store and when they are the only Kindle-compatible source for the vast majority of those titles, then banning a Kindle owner from Amazon is banning them from those 260K titles. The small print of their terms of service may say that they don't have to sell you those titles, but not doing so clearly reduces the value of any Kindle you may own. When the Kindle came out I was not overly concerned about Amazon getting out of the ebook business, and thus rendering existing Kindle ebooks obsolete, even though they had done exactly this once before. It never occurred to me that Amazon could stay in the ebook business, but only for Kindle owners they "liked".

04-08-2009, 10:54 AM	#147
TallMomof2 Kindlephilia Posts: 2,017 Karma: 1139255 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Snowpacolypse 2010 Device: Too many to count	Wow, this is really scary. At 50 I'm still naive enough to believe that big entities are concerned about the average person. I have almost 1/2 TB of purchased video from Amazon and many Kindle ebooks (most of them <$1.00 US or free). Well, no more DRMed content for me if it can't be stripped and stored for personal use.

04-08-2009, 11:22 AM	#150
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	My knee-jerk reaction was to get pissed at Amazon, but now I think I'm coming around to Harry's point of view. If I find a store that has excellent customer service and doesn't give me a hassle when I need to return an item then I will make sure to shop in that store. Unfortunately some people will abuse the excellent customer service. For example, nitpicking customers that return laptops because they can hear the fan running, or flat screen TVs because the color isn't crisp enough, or a whole host of subjective complaints where the customer sees a manufaturing defect but where the manufacturer disagrees. At some point this store with great customer service will have a choice -- revise their policies so that returns for ALL customers are not as favorable, or refuse access to customers that are abusing the system. I prefer they do the latter, so bottom line, I'm with Harry. (A warning would be nice though.)

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