The Jim Butcher Files: Dresden . Codex Alera . Cinder Spires & More

[AlbertaCowboy]

Originally Posted by bizzybody

Science Fiction written in the "Victorian Era" (circa 1837 to 1901, the reign of Queen Victoria) would by today's standards mostly be considered steampunk.

Steampunk as a genre is an attempt to go back to the era when steam engines powered trains and ships. Flight, such as was happening, was all done by hot air, hydrogen or helium. Powered road vehicles that didn't run on rails were in their earliest days and steam power was a major player, with gasoline, diesel and (very late Victorian era) electricity being the other three contenders. Steam's advantage had a lot to do with the primitive state of crude oil refining and formulating of gasoline.

Electricity was the new kid on the block and mostly used for lighting (from late 1870's).

Electric cooking and space heating was a rare curiosity until the early 1900's due to a lack of available high power electricity distribution. Electric motors of practical form came along in the late 1830's, with the first electric vehicle being a boat that transported 14 people in 1838. Motors for stationary use had the same problem as using electricity for cooking. Attempts were made to use large battery banks but a battery powered lathe or drill press just didn't cut it - not for very long at a time.

So for contemporary Victorian SciFi or latter-day steampunk, things like electric stoves and motors are the "high tech" of the day. Authors like Jules Verne saw the potential applications of electricity, once a sufficient and steady supply of it would become available.

50's era SciFi could be called Atompunk due to the ubiquity of "atom powered" and radioactive based technology. Read the original Foundation trilogy by Isaac Asimov for a taste of that. Atomic this and Atomo that. Every little bloody thing is "atomic powered", including a fancy dress with 3D lighting effects. 'Tis a pity Asimov completely abandoned that in the much later continuation books.

How about Jetpunk for the 1960's? As the jet engine obsoleted the piston engine in commercial aircraft, jet engines sprouted up everywhere in fiction.

The 1970's? Google formicapunk I've read a lot of SciFi from that decade. A lot of it was "experimental" or "new wave" - lots of it total crap or a real headscratcher as to how it even qualifies under the loosest definition of SciFi let alone Science Fiction - or "Why the bleep did Analog publish this?".

The 1980's and later? Far as I'm concerned, that's when Science Fiction and SciFi finally matured. Everything was fair game and the field could no longer be pigeonholed, it consistently failed to be mainly represented by the big new major technology of the time. Electronic computer technology had been in SF since at least the late 1950's, with written and visual SF envisioning things like computers as small as desks (desk computers, not *desktop* computers, The Jagged Orbit, 1969) and some especially forward visionaries postulating handhelds like Star Trek, Rendezvous with RAMA and The Mote in God's Eye.

The 1980's brought in real world refinements with many of the previous fantasy devices becoming real. That made it much harder for authors to come up with "far out" technologies to put in their stories. Real desk sized computers like the Xerox Alto and STAR never made much of a mark, being rapidly surpassed by microtechnology leading to the microcomputers that could sit *on* desks.

Throughout the history of science fiction the *best* stories haven't been so dependent on the technology being a main cast member, but tech is always there lurking in the background at least as part of the scenery.

The genre has come a long way from the time when an author would have to provide an extensive description of something like an electric motor for readers who might not have ever even seen an electric lamp, let alone know what electricity is.

Very nicely laid out. Thanks! K comin' your way.

[BuyMore]

Originally Posted by bizzybody

Science Fiction written in the "Victorian Era" (circa 1837 to 1901, the reign of Queen Victoria) would by today's standards mostly be considered steampunk.

Steampunk as a genre is an attempt to go back to the era when steam engines powered trains and ships. Flight, such as was happening, was all done by hot air, hydrogen or helium. Powered road vehicles that didn't run on rails were in their earliest days and steam power was a major player, with gasoline, diesel and (very late Victorian era) electricity being the other three contenders. Steam's advantage had a lot to do with the primitive state of crude oil refining and formulating of gasoline.

Electricity was the new kid on the block and mostly used for lighting (from late 1870's).

Electric cooking and space heating was a rare curiosity until the early 1900's due to a lack of available high power electricity distribution. Electric motors of practical form came along in the late 1830's, with the first electric vehicle being a boat that transported 14 people in 1838. Motors for stationary use had the same problem as using electricity for cooking. Attempts were made to use large battery banks but a battery powered lathe or drill press just didn't cut it - not for very long at a time.

So for contemporary Victorian SciFi or latter-day steampunk, things like electric stoves and motors are the "high tech" of the day. Authors like Jules Verne saw the potential applications of electricity, once a sufficient and steady supply of it would become available.

50's era SciFi could be called Atompunk due to the ubiquity of "atom powered" and radioactive based technology. Read the original Foundation trilogy by Isaac Asimov for a taste of that. Atomic this and Atomo that. Every little bloody thing is "atomic powered", including a fancy dress with 3D lighting effects. 'Tis a pity Asimov completely abandoned that in the much later continuation books.

How about Jetpunk for the 1960's? As the jet engine obsoleted the piston engine in commercial aircraft, jet engines sprouted up everywhere in fiction.

The 1970's? Google formicapunk I've read a lot of SciFi from that decade. A lot of it was "experimental" or "new wave" - lots of it total crap or a real headscratcher as to how it even qualifies under the loosest definition of SciFi let alone Science Fiction - or "Why the bleep did Analog publish this?".

The 1980's and later? Far as I'm concerned, that's when Science Fiction and SciFi finally matured. Everything was fair game and the field could no longer be pigeonholed, it consistently failed to be mainly represented by the big new major technology of the time. Electronic computer technology had been in SF since at least the late 1950's, with written and visual SF envisioning things like computers as small as desks (desk computers, not *desktop* computers, The Jagged Orbit, 1969) and some especially forward visionaries postulating handhelds like Star Trek, Rendezvous with RAMA and The Mote in God's Eye.

The 1980's brought in real world refinements with many of the previous fantasy devices becoming real. That made it much harder for authors to come up with "far out" technologies to put in their stories. Real desk sized computers like the Xerox Alto and STAR never made much of a mark, being rapidly surpassed by microtechnology leading to the microcomputers that could sit *on* desks.

Throughout the history of science fiction the *best* stories haven't been so dependent on the technology being a main cast member, but tech is always there lurking in the background at least as part of the scenery.

The genre has come a long way from the time when an author would have to provide an extensive description of something like an electric motor for readers who might not have ever even seen an electric lamp, let alone know what electricity is.

Originally Posted by AlbertaCowboy

Very nicely laid out. Thanks! K comin' your way.

Feels like I've just gone through History of Steampunk/SciFi 101.

[alansplace]

[Melon Soda]

For a skull, he looks pretty expressive LOL

[BuyMore]

^ Lol!

[Andy_T]

Originally Posted by bizzybody

Science Fiction written in the "Victorian Era" (circa 1837 to 1901, the reign of Queen Victoria) would by today's standard mostly be considered steampunk.

<snip>

The 1980's brought in real world refinements with many of the previous fantasy devices becoming real. That made it much harder for authors to come up with "far out" technologies to put in their stories. Real desk sized computers like the Xerox Alto and STAR never made much of a mark, being rapidly surpassed by microtechnology leading to the microcomputers that could sit *on* desks.

Very good writeup, thank you!

I would add the advent of "Virtual reality/Cyberspace" and biotechnology in the 80's.

[Toxaris]

Originally Posted by Andy_T

I would add the advent of "Virtual reality/Cyberspace" and biotechnology in the 80's.

Yuck, Cyberpunk as it is (was?) called. Never got into that style of SF. There were some good novels in my opinion, but they were rare.

Steampunk also does not have a big appeal to me, although I can really see that at least some novels by Verne can be regarded as Steampunk. That being said, I am always open to be surprised. As I have high regards for Jim, I will at least try the first novel of the Cinder Spires.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

Yuck, Cyberpunk as it is (was?) called. Never got into that style of SF. There were some good novels in my opinion, but they were rare.

Every genre will have more bad books than good ones. It will also depend on the person.

There is still new books that are more recent than the '80s that qualify as Cyberpunk (??) with Virtual Reality / Cyberspace / Biotech. Here is some that I really enjoyed:

• Inferno by Dan Brown (maybe this is less biotech and more a simple virus?)
• As The Mirror Cracks by Steven Lyle Jordan
• Breakthrough with sequel Leap by Michael C. Grumley
• Wired with sequel Amped by Douglas E. Richards
• Mind's Eye also by Douglas E. Richards
• Silo Saga (Wool, Shift, Dust) by Hugh Howey (great nanobots)
• last not least: Ready Player One by Ernest Cline

Maybe the mistake is to stick to a certain genre too much. The more you look for specific genres, the easier you will find the bad ones. Of my list there is only two books (that are not in a series by same author) that are somewhat similar, but still have a totally different feel to them - and that is As The Mirror Cracks and Ready Player One. Both even use very similar technology and equipment. Of course the online experience is different ...

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Every genre will have more bad books than good ones. It will also depend on the person.

There is still new books that are more recent than the '80s that qualify as Cyberpunk (??) with Virtual Reality / Cyberspace / Biotech. Here is some that I really enjoyed:

• Inferno by Dan Brown (maybe this is less biotech and more a simple virus?)
• As The Mirror Cracks by Steven Lyle Jordan
• Breakthrough with sequel Leap by Michael C. Grumley
• Wired with sequel Amped by Douglas E. Richards
• Mind's Eye also by Douglas E. Richards
• Silo Saga (Wool, Shift, Dust) by Hugh Howey (great nanobots)
• last not least: Ready Player One by Ernest Cline

Maybe the mistake is to stick to a certain genre too much. The more you look for specific genres, the easier you will find the bad ones. Of my list there is only two books (that are not in a series by same author) that are somewhat similar, but still have a totally different feel to them - and that is As The Mirror Cracks and Ready Player One. Both even use very similar technology and equipment. Of course the online experience is different ...

Hmmm...to start off, in the last 3 or 4 years Steven Lyle Jordan has visited and posted in this thread 8 to 10 times and I've planned to do so, but never actually read any of his books.

...ok, I've read pretty much all of Hugh Howey's stuff (except for I, Zombie) as well as privately emailed back and forth with him. I also just recently (this past August) read and enjoyed immensely, Ready Player One. Though both the Silo series and Ready Player One take place in fairly grim futures, I didn't think of them as any sub-genre of SciFi, but just as SciFi novels set in a grim future. Of the other stuff mentioned I've no specific knowledge.

I see no point in creating all of these sub-genres?!

[alansplace]

...Harry and eldest brother Gruff!!

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by alansplace

I see no point in creating all of these sub-genres?!

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by alansplace

Hmmm...to start off, in the last 3 or 4 years Steven Lyle Jordan has visited and posted in this thread 8 to 10 times and I've planned to do so, but never actually read any of his books.

...ok, I've read pretty much all of Hugh Howey's stuff (except for I, Zombie) as well as privately emailed back and forth with him. I also just recently (this past August) read and enjoyed immensely, Ready Player One. Though both the Silo series and Ready Player One take place in fairly grim futures, I didn't think of them as any sub-genre of SciFi, but just as SciFi novels set in a grim future. Of the other stuff mentioned I've no specific knowledge.

I see no point in creating all of these sub-genres?!

I find subgenres useful and helpful when cataloging my books and when writing a review. If its labeled as "scifi" but reads more like "horror", that will have an effect on how I review the book, even if its a good story - especially if I was specifically looking for, and therefore expecting, "scifi"; or worse not wanting to read horror at that time.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

I find subgenres useful and helpful when cataloging my books and when writing a review. If its labeled as "scifi" but reads more like "horror", that will have an effect on how I review the book, even if its a good story - especially if I was specifically looking for, and therefore expecting, "scifi"; or worse not wanting to read horror at that time.

Since when is horror a subgenre of Sci-Fi?

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Since when is horror a subgenre of Sci-Fi?

Fine, since we're being obtuse about it instead of actually inferring meaning...

If I'm expecting a "sword and sorcery" fantasy novel, but it turns out to be a paranormal fantasy novel (with little to no elements of sword & sorcery), that will influence my review.

[alansplace]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Since when is horror a subgenre of Sci-Fi?

Sheesh!!!

Category:Science fiction horror films
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Science fiction horror films are a sub-genre of science fiction and horror films, often revolving around subjects that include but are not limited to alien invasions, mad scientists, and/or experiments gone wrong.