Astak Mentor eBook readers with WiFi and Touchscreen (read-only)

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Speed on eBook Readers is determined by the NAND Flash used in the device ( single level cell versus multi level cell) and much more important... the controller. Almost ALL ebooks presently on the market use a controller developed very well by PVI 3-4 years ago.This is because so FEW eBook Readers were on the market that no controller manufacturer wanted to bother. PVI did a very commendable job but eBooks Readers have matured and become more abundant. EPSON, a REAL controller company, has finally built a controller that gets the most out of the NAND Flash. It has great speed. Slowly, most eBook Manufacturers aremaking the switch. I can tell you that Jinke (makers of our EZ Reader) and Netronix (makers of our future Mentor line) are doing the needful. The new EZ Reader Plus amd EZ Reader Pro will have the Epson controller. The new Mentor Line will have the Epson controller.

The EZ Reader uses an interface where if you push the page turn button once it turns one page. If you hold it down it jumps TEN pages at a time. You can get from first to last selection quickly and easily no matter how many ebooks you have. That is a nice feature.

Robert B

Robert, thanks for your great updates.

Regarding the price issues, I have no problems with the price levels as long as I am getting a superior e-reading device. My comments on netbooks/iphones was to show that, as long as compromises are being made, the price point needs to be lower. I have spent a lot of money over the years on ebooks, but I'm waiting for a better device before I shell out again. This means ...

A flexible (less breakable) screen, a faster controller, better software (folders, skip ten pages, ...), and for me, touch-screen with note taking.

In regard to the touch screen, have you taken a look at swype? I haven't tried it myself, but it seems like a superior text input method. You can see it here:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-...l?tag=blogFeed

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by SaraD

Yes, but what kind of battery life do you get? None of my gadget toys with LCD screens get a really good battery life. Maybe a day or maybe 3 of heavy use at best and that is for basic mp3 players. However, that may have changed since I last made any major purchases of rechargable electronics. I am really hoping that the e-ink screens perform close to the advertised battery life. The only netbook numbers I've seen for battery life were pretty poor. Why would I want to have to recharge so often just to read?

Good comment about battery life. As I mentioned in another post to Robert, my comments about price were as a comparison. As long as I'm buying a compromise device I expect prices similar to other portable electronics. If it is a superior device for ebook reading I don't mind paying extra for the features. Unfortunately, the devices available TODAY have too many compromises. I'm not ready to pay a premium (again) for a product with clear shortcomings (fragile, slow, poor button layout).

Specifically in regard to the battery life, I don't think you will find eink (today) anywhere close to the advertised battery life. Nobody will say for sure, but I think you have two problems:

1) Each e-ink page turn is actually 2 page refreshes. First it flashes the screen to clear off all of the previous content. Then it writes the new screen. If your device is rated at 8,000 page turns, turning the page 4,000 times with two refreshes each would run out your battery.

2) The battery life is not really only dependent on page turns. The processor also burns up juice. I suspect that the 8,000 is an ideal figure that assumes the processor is only running to turn pages (continuous page turns). In real life, there is probably some idle time with the processor running between page turns, and definitely processor use every time you start up and shut down the life. This also reduces battery life.

The bottom line is that I've never had problems finishing an entire book with my e-ink (reading books with up to 150,000 or so words), but I wouldn't count on finishing a second book without a recharge. This is a real improvement over laptops and pda's but its not a device that can run a week at the rate I read books -grin.

Michael

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by emellaich

Good comment about battery life. As I mentioned in another post to Robert, my comments about price were as a comparison. As long as I'm buying a compromise device I expect prices similar to other portable electronics. If it is a superior device for ebook reading I don't mind paying extra for the features. Unfortunately, the devices available TODAY have too many compromises. I'm not ready to pay a premium (again) for a product with clear shortcomings (fragile, slow, poor button layout).

Specifically in regard to the battery life, I don't think you will find eink (today) anywhere close to the advertised battery life. Nobody will say for sure, but I think you have two problems:

1) Each e-ink page turn is actually 2 page refreshes. First it flashes the screen to clear off all of the previous content. Then it writes the new screen. If your device is rated at 8,000 page turns, turning the page 4,000 times with two refreshes each would run out your battery.

2) The battery life is not really only dependent on page turns. The processor also burns up juice. I suspect that the 8,000 is an ideal figure that assumes the processor is only running to turn pages (continuous page turns). In real life, there is probably some idle time with the processor running between page turns, and definitely processor use every time you start up and shut down the life. This also reduces battery life.

The bottom line is that I've never had problems finishing an entire book with my e-ink (reading books with up to 150,000 or so words), but I wouldn't count on finishing a second book without a recharge. This is a real improvement over laptops and pda's but its not a device that can run a week at the rate I read books -grin.

Michael

Michael knows his stuff here. E-ink devices advertise 8,000 pages of text to a charge. That is really great. And... frankly, in use I just know it lasts and lasts and lasts in the form of my EZ Reader. The concept of E-ink is that NO power is used to display a page. You can leave the same page up all day and not use power. It is when you turn pages or play music or scroll thru your library that you draw power.

HOWEVER... the biggest thing I have heard from MobileRead Forum people is:
MAKE THE BATTERY REPLACIBLE! The EZ Reader HAS a rather EASY one screw replacible battery. The battery is teeny and can be carried anywhere. Our website will sell spare batteries. There is no reason you cannot carry a spare battery if you are at all worried about having enough power.

Robert B

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by emellaich

Robert, thanks for your great updates.

Regarding the price issues, I have no problems with the price levels as long as I am getting a superior e-reading device. My comments on netbooks/iphones was to show that, as long as compromises are being made, the price point needs to be lower. I have spent a lot of money over the years on ebooks, but I'm waiting for a better device before I shell out again. This means ...

A flexible (less breakable) screen, a faster controller, better software (folders, skip ten pages, ...), and for me, touch-screen with note taking.

In regard to the touch screen, have you taken a look at swype? I haven't tried it myself, but it seems like a superior text input method. You can see it here:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-...l?tag=blogFeed

Dear Emellaich:

All I have learned so far is that it (EZ READER Pro) will have Touchscreen, will have Wi-Fi, has an option for 3G, and will have a "soft keyboard" note-taking system. T-9 has been recommended to us before. Let me talk with Jinke and send a copy of your email to them. Do not expect immediate reply please... but let us find out together.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Dear Xenophon:

I am familiar with the ergonomics of the REB 1150. I make it a point to never point out anything good or poor about my competition. I like the big buttons on the left side of the REB 1150 and it has a nice shape.

Let me JUST talk about the EZ Reader in vague comparison. First, not all of the world is right-handed.

I believe (I don't have one) that the device in question can be flipped over so that it is the same left handed as right handed.

BOb

[slayda]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Michael knows his stuff here. E-ink devices advertise 8,000 pages of text to a charge. That is really great. And... frankly, in use I just know it lasts and lasts and lasts in the form of my EZ Reader. The concept of E-ink is that NO power is used to display a page. You can leave the same page up all day and not use power. It is when you turn pages or play music or scroll thru your library that you draw power.

HOWEVER... the biggest thing I have heard from MobileRead Forum people is:
MAKE THE BATTERY REPLACIBLE! The EZ Reader HAS a rather EASY one screw replacible battery. The battery is teeny and can be carried anywhere. Our website will sell spare batteries. There is no reason you cannot carry a spare battery if you are at all worried about having enough power.

Robert B

Since your battery is user replaceable, couldn't you ship them out of China without the battery installed and let the user install it?

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I believe (I don't have one) that the device in question can be flipped over so that it is the same left handed as right handed.

BOb

if you're talking about the eb1150, that is correct ; the screen can be rotated 180°, and the side buttons are automatically re-mapped to account for the rotation, so it can be held in either hand just as comfortably.

[Dylrob]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Dear Dylan:

I have NOT specifically tested the Epson controller but know well how it works. My company also manufactures Flash Memory Cards which also work with NAND Flash and a controller. Single Level Cell is far faster than Multi Level Cell NAND. Unfortunately, two years ago, all of the NAND manufacturers went to Multi Level Cell 90%. That means the cost of SLC went sky high.

What the Epson Controller does is have an interface that will allow info to be pulled from both levels at once (think of a Multi Level Nand as a two-story house). It means instead of running up and down stairs to find your socks, umbrella, and running shoes... you and your mate split up and hunt both floors simutaneously.

As all those bytes of ebook are stored in the NAND Flash, the search takes much shorter time.

Does that help?

Robert B

Okay. So if I understand correctly, smaller bits of data like text should take noticeably less time to render on the display?

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Dear Xenophon:

I am familiar with the ergonomics of the REB 1150. I make it a point to never point out anything good or poor about my competition. I like the big buttons on the left side of the REB 1150 and it has a nice shape.

I'm very glad to hear that you are aware of it. And I certainly understand the dangers of saying too much about one's competition.

Originally Posted by Robertb

Let me JUST talk about the EZ Reader in vague comparison. First, not all of the world is right-handed. WHERE would a left hander grasp this other device without accidently doing a page advance. The EZ Reader has three sets of page advance/retreat buttons and accomdates both right and left handed people well. Like the 1150 does to you, the EZ Reader feels great in my hand and everything is in easy reach with my thumb yet there is no danger of accidently triggering a function (why we decided NOT to go with oversized buttons).

Hmmm... Perhaps you haven't played with the 1150 quite enough. If you wish to hold it in your right hand, you set the configuration so the buttons are on the right by indicating which side is on "top" as you hold it. The buttons remap automatically, so that they work "the same" for holding it in the right hand vs. holding it in the left hand.

Even better, if you want to hold it differently than their designers envisioned, you can remap the meaning of the big buttons. So, if I hold it with my left hand in the middle of the device, the "next page" button -- the upper of the two big buttons -- falls directly below my left thumb. If I want to hold it with my left hand on the lower left corner of the device, I can remap the buttons so that the lower button means next page... and still use the button that naturally falls beneath my thumb to advance the page!

It works right-handed. It works left handed. I can use it in landscape mode with buttons on top or on bottom. I can reverse the meaning of the buttons, so I can hold it from whatever corner I want while still having the "next page" button fall directly under my thumb. It gives me the freedom to use it in whatever orientation and grip location works for me!

I should also note that in 2 1/2 years of using an 1100, I never once hit one of those big buttons by mistake. The simple (and very comfortable) solution was to grip with my thumb just outboard of the button. Your mileage may vary, but...

Originally Posted by Robertb

Let me say though that I am pleased that you are pleased. I think it great that you found something that feels good to you. Two years of research went into getting the EZ Reader (Jinke Hanlin V3) exactly right on ergonomics. I cannot imagine a more well-planned and logical layout. I am sure that some will feel differently... but I honestly think the strongest suit of the EZ Reader is how it feels in the hand, how it should not have misfires (accidental tripping), and how your thumb has reach.

Robert B

The 1100/1150 family indeed feels great in my hand. But I nevertheless use a Sony PRS-500, because the screen quality and battery life is SOOOO much better that I couldn't resist switching. And I've been missing that high-quality ergonomic design ever since.

To check what you mean about the button layout of the EZ Reader (since I haven't been able to see one in person): If I hold it in any of the following positions, there's a large comfortable button directly under my thumb that advances the page:

• Reader in portrait mode, held in my left hand, with middle and ring fingers at roughly the middle of its height
• Reader in portrait mode, held in my left hand, but gripping near the lower left corner rather than the middle of the left side
• Either of the above positions, but held with my right hand.
• Any of those four positions, but in landscape mode rather than portrait mode.

And... in any of those 8 total reading positions, not only are the buttons well placed but also the reader is well balanced in the hand. Right?

Note that neither the Sony PRS-500, nor the PRS-505, nor the CyBook Gen3, nor the Kindle, nor any other eInk reader I have yet encountered manages all of that. But the 1100/1150 does. (The jury is still out on the PRS-700 -- I haven't gotten my hands on one yet. But I'm not holding my breath, either.)

Seriously, if you haven't spent a couple of hours with an 1100/1150 family device in your hands, you haven't yet understood the difference I'm trying to point at. And your question about left-handers above leads me to suspect that you haven't spent those couple of hours (as does your raising the issue of mis-fires, which are just not a problem on that device).

What I'm requesting is that you spend the roughly $100 for the reader plus a couple of hours of your time so that you can read with one of those devices for a long enough period to understand why I make such a fuss about the physical ergonomics of that family of devices. It's perfectly clear that no-one at Sony has bothered to do that. Nor did the good folks who designed the Cybook G3. Nor did Amazon and the Kindle's designers.

You have the opportunity to beat the crap out of the big guys! Please take it! Get the ergonomics right, as well as formats and screen and all the other things you've already worried about, and you'll get my vote in the most sincere way possible: I'll buy the unit.

Xenophon

[dki]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

I should also note that in 2 1/2 years of using an 1100, I never once hit one of those big buttons by mistake. The simple (and very comfortable) solution was to grip with my thumb just outboard of the button. Your mileage may vary, but...
Xenophon

I totally agree. RCA1100 that I am using now is the most ergonomically advanced handheld device I have ever seen (and laid my hands on). I have to say again, that extremely light is good for some, but not for all. I don't care about few additional ounces, as long as I have something that feels and operates well, and is damage resistant. There is plenty of light readers on the market for anybody who wants to carry them in their pocket (and I have to wonder about that idea, really... untill we have foldable screens, how practical is 6 inch ereader in your pocket).

Maybe you should come up with one device, in your lineup, that would be less light and more long-term use. Like REB 1100. I am pretty sure you would find your corner in the market. Certainly with me. As it is now, I just am not sure, being already burned on one very light Cybook.

Dorota

[NeweReader]

This comment is for all the readers who have been complaining about the EZ Reader.

If you don't like what the EZ Reader has to offer (ie., its functions, shape, weight, screen, etc.), then don't buy it!

If you have or like the REB 1150, the Sony PRS-505/500, the Cybook Gen3, or any other ereader, including your phone, then stick with what you have or like. Don't criticize what the EZ Reader is offering because it isn't what you have, like or want. It is its own device with its own features.

Robert,

I am sure when you opened up this forum for suggestions for improving your device, I am pretty sure your intent was not for people to complain and gripe about what it doesn't have or do. I am sure you were hoping for constructive, useful, productive suggestions that could possibly make a great device even greater. I am sorry that alot of what is posted sounds like complaining and griping. There may have been valid suggestions made in some of the comments, but it sure seems they could have presented their ideas in a more constructive manner.

Most people don't go out and purchase a Magnavox TV and then send emails to Toshiba and complain that the Toshiba TVs don't have what the Magnavox TV has. This is what it seems is happening here.

I usually don't write comments like this, and I know I am probably opening myself up to be criticized but I guess I have just gotten tired of the negative comments.

I want you to know that there is at least one person who thinks your device will be just awesome and just what I am looking for, just as it is! I thank you for continuing to respond to comments, even with all the negativity. I am impressed by your continued focus on YOUR product and not the others. Please be reassured that your efforts are appreciated.

A lone voice,
Newereader

[AJ Starr]

Originally Posted by NeweReader

...
I want you to know that there is at least one person who thinks your device will be just awesome and just what I am looking for, just as it is!

Make that two!!!

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by NeweReader

If you don't like what the EZ Reader has to offer (ie., its functions, shape, weight, screen, etc.), then don't buy it!

Wow, what a revelation. We were actually responding to some "dubious" remarks Robert made about the REB device and setting him straight... not complaining about the EZ Reader.

Originally Posted by NeweReader

Robert,

I am sure when you opened up this forum for suggestions for improving your device, I am pretty sure your intent was not for people to complain and gripe about what it doesn't have or do.

Perhaps you need to go back and read the beginning of the thread where Robert solicited feedback on proposed devices.

I have seen nothing here but encouragement and enthusiasm about the new devices and possibilities and the feedback requested. Not all feedback will be positive.

BOb

[dki]

Likewise, I was not complaining about EZ Reader, I don't own this device and cannot complain about it. I was under impression that Robert was soliciting opinions and suggestions about the development of the line of the readers Astak will be offering in the future. So I offered my opinion, and said what I would like in the reader, that's all.

I like lots of things about REB1100, so I mentioned them. That being said, I liked a lot of things about Cybook, but it's flimsiness, lightness and thinness were not all that appealing, and I mentioned that too. Those were the devices I owed and used, and I can render an opinion on them - if someone combined eink technology and Cybook's software with sturdiness, reliability and ergonomics of 1100 1150, I would be lining up for that. I understand that eink display is inherently (at least for now) much more fragile, but I still think that if set in a more resistant frame, it would do much better than i current crop of devices.

I also understand that Astak is not the manufacturer of the EZ reader, but my comment was meant more for the line that they are planning on working in the future - Mentor. I will probably try EZ reader once it has a touch screen and new controller, as for now it seems to be solid choice, considering software and US warranty. And I am still hoping for a perfect, and not so thin reader - maybe from Astak.

Dorota

[nekokami]

Another vote in favor of ergonomics like the EBW 1150 for the Mentor. Seriously, try one for several days so you can see what we're talking about. The only reason I switched to an iLiad was because I needed PDF support for my graduate classes.