Astak Mentor eBook readers with WiFi and Touchscreen (read-only)

[HPG]

I do think that the flak Robertb is getting is most unfortunate. He's had the courage and imagination to bring readers of this forum into the design process in a way that most manufacturers don't, and the honesty to keep us in touch with current projections for price and delivery, which are almost bound to change as a project progresses, especially one involving a product line that's new to a manufacturer. Surely the information we've been getting from Robertb is extremely helpful in coming to a decision about which unit, if any, to buy, and which, if any, to wait for?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by HPG

I do think that the flak Robertb is getting is most unfortunate. He's had the courage and imagination to bring readers of this forum into the design process in a way that most manufacturers don't, and the honesty to keep us in touch with current projections for price and delivery, which are almost bound to change as a project progresses, especially one involving a product line that's new to a manufacturer. Surely the information we've been getting from Robertb is extremely helpful in coming to a decision about which unit, if any, to buy, and which, if any, to wait for?

Well said. Every major e-book reader currently on the market is half-baked and unfinished IMHO. When CYbook first announced the Gen 3, they promised RTF support and HTML. At delivery time RTF was postponed until the next firmware release, and postponed again. HTML can't handle anything but simple HTML and even then it sometimes get lost with italics. Sony supports RTF, but no TOC and no pictures. That's support? And don't get me started on the DRM ONLY Kindle. I can't say about the Iliad, as I can't afford it.

I'm still using my 1st Gen CYbook, despite all of it's hardware limitations, because it works. It'll read just about any text based non-DRM'ed format, so I don't have to reformat my books.

So if it takes a little longer that expected, and cost a little more that projected, if it works like the 1st gen CYbook does, I'll sing Hallelujah and here's my money.

Sorry about the rant. Whoever gets a reliable, flexible format, e-ink ebook reader will end up owning the market, because nobody else has one....

[AJ Starr]

Thanks for the update, Robert.

Still anxiously awaiting one.

[Walk Broad]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

However, I would like to see a great 6inch device that supports eReader because I feel eReader has the least restrictive DRM.

Anyway, my comments are only meant to help.

BOb

Again, I agree with you BOb (we seem to do a lot of that )

At any rate, I do applaud RobertB for stepping up and personally getting involved.

The true problem is we now have a responsible expectation to see things come to fruition as stated.

It's the same way when there is less personal involvement and only hear of things through press releases or other means. If Apple or Microsoft make announcements of product X being available on Y date, we should look to see that come to pass.

Imagine the outcry and PR nightmare if the upcoming 3G iPhone misses it's July 11th date? Apple would never let that happen. They'd ship with half working iPhones before they'd let the date come and go and issue mia culpas (sp?) and replacement models until all the problems were fixed and the customers were happy.

"Yeah, my iPhone had X problem(s) when I first got it but Apple took care of me quickly. I love my iPhone" for example.

The same thing happened to Microsoft with the XBox360 although they don't engender the same feelings of love and goodwill Apple does

On the other hand, most times, we do not get this same level of communication with any other company, and for that, we should be grateful.

On the other, other hand, continual delays of any product passed the promised date leads to consumer frustration and loss of confidence as evidenced in Moz's post. Begining of June slipped to end of June which became August which became end of July. The price went from around $150 to now around $250.

It will be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle at this point. If RobertB were to disappear from these forums, some will feel they've been proven right. When Astak finally ships the device(s) the negative feelings will only have grown.

As difficult as it may be at this point, RobertB is going to have to keep the lines of communications open. The company may lose some potential customers who are turned off by the repeated missed deadlines and price creep, but will gain more in good will down the line by continuing the communication instead or severing it.

(Personally, I just wanted a slim, light, 5/6 inch device (eInk, LCD, plastic, metal, didn't matter) that had native eReader support at what I considered a more reasonable price point (e.g. below $200 USD), everything else was superfluous to me.)

[alanastoz]

Originally Posted by Walk Broad

Again, I agree with you BOb (we seem to do a lot of that )

At any rate, I do applaud RobertB for stepping up and personally getting involved.

The true problem is we now have a responsible expectation to see things come to fruition as stated.

It's the same way when there is less personal involvement and only hear of things through press releases or other means. If Apple or Microsoft make announcements of product X being available on Y date, we should look to see that come to pass.

Imagine the outcry and PR nightmare if the upcoming 3G iPhone misses it's July 11th date? Apple would never let that happen. They'd ship with half working iPhones before they'd let the date come and go and issue mia culpas (sp?) and replacement models until all the problems were fixed and the customers were happy.

"Yeah, my iPhone had X problem(s) when I first got it but Apple took care of me quickly. I love my iPhone" for example.

The same thing happened to Microsoft with the XBox360 although they don't engender the same feelings of love and goodwill Apple does

On the other hand, most times, we do not get this same level of communication with any other company, and for that, we should be grateful.

On the other, other hand, continual delays of any product passed the promised date leads to consumer frustration and loss of confidence as evidenced in Moz's post. Begining of June slipped to end of June which became August which became end of July. The price went from around $150 to now around $250.

It will be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle at this point. If RobertB were to disappear from these forums, some will feel they've been proven right. When Astak finally ships the device(s) the negative feelings will only have grown.

As difficult as it may be at this point, RobertB is going to have to keep the lines of communications open. The company may lose some potential customers who are turned off by the repeated missed deadlines and price creep, but will gain more in good will down the line by continuing the communication instead or severing it.

(Personally, I just wanted a slim, light, 5/6 inch device (eInk, LCD, plastic, metal, didn't matter) that had native eReader support at what I considered a more reasonable price point (e.g. below $200 USD), everything else was superfluous to me.)

Hey guys how about getting off Robert B's back for a while. If he spends every waking moment answering your never ending questions which just get more and more technical when he is supposed to have the time to organise the damn thing!! ALL you seem to be saying constantly is I WANT!
Unknown to most of you Robert has actually been working REAL hard to make these available in other countries as well such as Asia and Australia!
YES it looks like ASTAK will be the only company that will have outlets selling an ebook reader in OZ other than the Iliad which none of us can afford to buy anyway ($900)
So watch this space and you may just find out that ozzies will be able to walk down to the local shop and get one off the shelf!
Now do you see that he is doing lots and lots and lots of things to het this product launched?
Come on the guy has given us more time than anyone else would have.
Sorry for the rant. Still love you guys!

[cbell]

I certainly look forward to the options of wireless, bluetooth and touch screen in 5" and 6" eBook Readers.

alanastoz, DA Information Services is in Melbourne and has iLiads (both editions) and Cybook Gen3s in stock, along with all accessories/spare parts. DA also has HanLin V3.

[Luigino]

All you could be right about your feelings.... even who doesn't have feelings like that? I guess it's damn normal...
I would only notice robertb didn't said if there will be or not more than a version of 6" inch's Mentor, one with all whistles and bells and one without... so the one without would have a price more cheap...except the fact for some people, like me, there's no need of all these whistles and bells.
Also because I'm sure in mobileread there's more than a person that wouldn't really need all these whistles and bells and pay less money...
Hope robertb will give us an answer about this so I can stay quiet waiting Mentor's coming out even if in september without anxiety to know if it'll cost cheap or not...

[Walk Broad]

Originally Posted by alanastoz

Hey guys how about getting off Robert B's back for a while.

I thought I just said that

[Mindy]

I think the intention has always been that the 5" will be the one without 'whistles and bells'.
I'm still slightly smitten, regardless.

[tINmOUSE]

Robert,

Do think you can do a 'official' summing up of the current thinking on release dates and pricing?

Tis all very confusing for a newbie trying to follow the progress of the release/price saga...

[Luigino]

Originally Posted by Mindy

I think the intention has always been that the 5" will be the one without 'whistles and bells'.
I'm still slightly smitten, regardless.

I wouldn't like it then... I think the 5" model is too small for me to read... at least the 6" has the same dimension as a pocket paper book which surely is more readable... that's why I am waiting to know something about the 6"...

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Luigino

I wouldn't like it then... I think the 5" model is too small for me to read... at least the 6" has the same dimension as a pocket paper book which surely is more readable... that's why I am waiting to know something about the 6"...

The 5" model will be a boon to the one's who like small font and high portability. With its 600x600 screen it features 200 ppi so it may be just as readable if you have good eyes.

Dale

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Luigino

I wouldn't like it then... I think the 5" model is too small for me to read... at least the 6" has the same dimension as a pocket paper book which surely is more readable... that's why I am waiting to know something about the 6"...

Actually, I used the 5inch Jetbook for several weeks while I was reviewing it. It was more compact than my 6inch Sony and I would be more willing to take it with me since it would fit in my pocket. The small size didn't hinder reading that much. It was still much bigger than the Zire I compared it to which many people read on comfortably.

Here is a pic of the Sony 6inch next to the Jetbook 5inch and the Palm... http://www.flickr.com/photos/26618195@N02/2495706521/

BOb

[Alisa]

I'm reminded of when the Kindles were out of stock and so many people were complaining that there were no estimates of when they were coming back in. People were frustrated with the inspecific message they were getting that they were working to get them back in stock soon. They wanted some idea of when "soon" would be and were flummoxed as to why Amazon wouldn't give them that. This is why. You can say these dates estimates and projections all you like but many customers will still take it as a promise and feel lied to when the estimate is wrong. Personally I'm glad Aztak chose to involve us in the process. I know what it's like putting out products when you're dealing with overseas manufacturing, prototype hardware, etc. Sometimes you have to move the date if you want the product to be right. I'd rather wait and have the product be as intended.

[emellaich]

This conversation about the Astak changes is quite interesting to me. I am a professor at a business school and I just talked to my class on Entrepreneurship on this last night. In fact, we talked about the ipod as an example of rolling out a complete product.

Although there can be rumors for weeks on the timing and features of new ipods, the rumors are usually wrong. The first sign of the new product is when the Apple store shuts down for a couple hours. Then comes the announcement and the product is usually immediately available on the web site.

In a well-understood, highly competitive market companies work to surprise their competitors with amazing new offerings. However, if you think about it the various ipod generations are really fairly simple changes. More memory, smaller size, brighter/bigger video screens.

However, when products are new and consumer needs are not well understood companies work in a more open fashion. In these fields the trick is not to surprise the competition -- the trick is to clear up the market uncertainty and understand what the market needs. This means open communications with the market, and it may mean a lot of changes. New features added and subtracted regularly.

I know there have been a lot of ebook attempts, but arguably no one has yet determined the 'right' answer. How important is a keyboard (Kindle)? Touchscreen? Size? WiFi? Memory capacity? Low-light readibility?

If your test market does not understand what is going on, the dialog can be frustrating. However, this is truly an attempt to understand and adapt to market needs. I don't think you should see this as 'under-delivering', but as an attempt to discuss and test various options to receive feedback. Most of the public will never know about these iterations, but as part of the test group we certainly see all the changes.

I recognize(d) the process, and if you will go back in this thread you will see my vote that Astak stick to the basics and introduce a product that gets the basics correct and get it out into the market and then evolve the product over time. A rapid evolution approach such as this is another way of testing and probing the market to settle on a final design.

However, truthfully many people don't like a rapid evolution approach either. They buy the first version and seem to feel cheated when later versions are introduced. I guess you can't please everyone.

Bottom line is that I don't know how personally comfortable you are with this back and forth process. However, the sense I am getting in this thread is that some people see it as a sign of incompetence, of bumbling about, or even of outright fraud. I would offer the thought that this is a very accepted approach for settling on the design of an innovative product, and that many would feel that this approach is a sign of competence not bumbling.

It may or may not be the development style that you personally embrace, but it is an effective approach that does lead to excellent products in many cases. I continue to hold out hopes that this product will ultimately achieve a winning bundle of features and price, and I understand that the exact features/price may change as Astak learns more about the market.

Michael