Why aren't there more double screen devices for academic readers?

[Logseman]

The more I look at what the market offers now, the less faith I have in finding appropiate ebook readers for the academic sector. Even if they managed to get it straight with formatting, they're still hard to use for power reading (i.e reading cross-referenced texts, texts with hyperlinks, embedded graphical material alongside text...).

In fact, the only device I've seen that appears to be really trying to fill this space is the Entourage Edge. However, it appears to be quite unknown even in its niche market. What do double screen readers need to go conquer a high-income market as university professors should be? Or is there another idea that would be feasible for them?

[dapriuk]

As an engineer I have similar requirements. For the last 4 years I have been using a tablet PC with the Microsoft OneNote application as a replacement for my paper notebooks and have not used any paper in that time. I can thoroughly recommend OneNote for annotation and notetaking.

I now need to replace my tablet but see no alternative yet to tablet + ereader. The Entourage Edge looks an interesting step but needs some refining. In the meantime I will get a Windows 7 tablet pc or slate and a large format ereader, possibly the ASUS 950 if it is ever released.

[Mickey330]

I think what might be needed is an e-reader/program that lets you open e-books in tabs on the device. I saw this thought the other day on Nate the Great's blog and I've thought it was a marvelous idea ever since.

As a college student, I would love to be able to switch back and forth on the device with the same quickness as, say, Firefox's tabbed browser. Wouldn't that be cool? Then, you could have all sorts of books open - at the same time - which should make studying pretty cool (well, as cool as studying CAN be!).

Something to wish for...

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by dapriuk

As an engineer I have similar requirements. For the last 4 years I have been using a tablet PC with the Microsoft OneNote application as a replacement for my paper notebooks and have not used any paper in that time. I can thoroughly recommend OneNote for annotation and notetaking.

I now need to replace my tablet but see no alternative yet to tablet + ereader. The Entourage Edge looks an interesting step but needs some refining. In the meantime I will get a Windows 7 tablet pc or slate and a large format ereader, possibly the ASUS 950 if it is ever released.

Very similar to my needs...OneNote and a dual panel device with a Wacom or other active digitizer that is accurate enough to manage handwriting. It just needs to take and save the notes they can be run through HWR later on a larger machine.

My biggest concern with all of the larger format readers is the lack of solid OneNote alternatives out there...call it research/study/whatever management software is the real key to making those devices of use to students, professionals or even just someone who wants to manage everything you can imagine via OneNote (I dumped Evernote when they started charging a yearly fee if you want any sort of real use out of it...).

There was one other besides the Edge that was announced having dual 10" (or was it 12"??) panels. Many here blew it off because, well I guess because it din't bake cookies or change a tire on your car, but I thought it was the ideal device for exactly what you are describing...

Hopefully someone will recall the device...Nate would know, or ??? I don't remember but I think it was a more well known brand like Samsung, or maybe not...I don't mind 8-10hrs battery life and 3-4lbs if need be...I need the device able to run Win7 and OneNote and not cost thirty-eleven-zillion-bucks....even a single panel 14" device (14" ~diagonal of 8.5"x11" page) but 12" will smaller margins is fine with me.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by Mickey330

I think what might be needed is an e-reader/program that lets you open e-books in tabs on the device. I saw this thought the other day on Nate the Great's blog and I've thought it was a marvelous idea ever since.

As a college student, I would love to be able to switch back and forth on the device with the same quickness as, say, Firefox's tabbed browser. Wouldn't that be cool? Then, you could have all sorts of books open - at the same time - which should make studying pretty cool (well, as cool as studying CAN be!).

Something to wish for...

Agreed, tabbed access to multiple opened books would be perfect to help flip around quickly inside a book or between multiple books. THing is the ability is there but most of these deivce makers are having such a hard time getting funding right now they are lucky to get prototypes out on the convention floor. Software has to take a back seat it seems...but it's the lack of that software which, for me, is holding the truly interesting devices back.

[_CL]

Too bad Microsoft killed the Courier project. It was targeted initially towards graphics, but it seems it could have been easily adapted for text books.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by _CL

Too bad Microsoft killed the Courier project. It was targeted initially towards graphics, but it seems it could have been easily adapted for text books.

I don't have a link handy but somehere on MR is a thread that while the Courier was an interesting device the mock-ups we saw were said to be small screen devices in the 4"-6" range. So not too likely they were going for the right niche. Still the Courier is the style of product a lot of people have been wanting for at least 10-years. I've only been wanting one for a bit over 40years.

The bummer part is the longer it takes for someone to build the device properly the less a need/justification I have to buy one. As it is now I can't hold a standard sized pen or pencil longer than needed to sign my name. Were it not for typing or dictation software I would not be able to write much. So my ability to derive any real benefit from a Courier like device just diminish every year, heck every month these days. Still I want to see them finally come to exist and be useful...my concern is these devices get released as novelty bits of hardware, I haven't read much news about the usefulness of the Edge despite it's wonderful potential. So mfg's seem to be tossing these things out there in hoped someone somewhere would write real software for the thing. Still I suppose they need to start somewhere but it sure hurts when they keep designing devices that don't have any mainstream app support.

[darknessangel]

How about the Toshiba libretto? Of course it's pricey but it has sexy written allover it and win7 based = you can use OneNote. For just reading the new Pocketbook 902 and 903 look cool.

GJMS

[harryE123]

Originally Posted by _CL

Too bad Microsoft killed the Courier project. It was targeted initially towards graphics, but it seems it could have been easily adapted for text books.

they didn't kill it, it was vapourware to begin with just to get the pc crowd excited for something that wasn't there to begin with, when apple was shipping the ipad. Plus it was a crap backward device to begin with. Microsoft hasn't managed to design a decent interface or os for a smart phone, and they've been at it for decades, do you really expect them to deliver the paradigm shift to e-readers? Shhhhh....

Two screens is not the issue for academia, this is the wrong paradigm. The device should have a good screen size to cater for an a4 format, and be fast and responsive enough. It should also incorporate some innovation to cater for the lack of being able to physically browse through a paper, and for references, stacks of documents etc. etc. Two screens is just an anachronism that might look good on paper but won't be any more functional than just one. And obviously one can have two tablet format readers and use them as too screens.

[harryE123]

Originally Posted by dapriuk

As an engineer I have similar requirements. For the last 4 years I have been using a tablet PC with the Microsoft OneNote application as a replacement for my paper notebooks and have not used any paper in that time. I can thoroughly recommend OneNote for annotation and notetaking.

I now need to replace my tablet but see no alternative yet to tablet + ereader. The Entourage Edge looks an interesting step but needs some refining. In the meantime I will get a Windows 7 tablet pc or slate and a large format ereader, possibly the ASUS 950 if it is ever released.

Why would you get a tablet with windows 7, when there's the ipad? I won't go into the obvious points in terms of windows 7 that I made in another thread, but don't you realise this os isn't for arm cpus and arm cpus are the only viable option in terms of a tablet with decent battery, screen quality, responsiveness, heat, etc. etc.? You are an engineer, you should know all that. At least go with android in a few months, or wait for hp to take advantage of palm's ip and develop and web os tablet. Windows 7 is not a mobile os, it's not a touch os, and it's not a tablet os. It's an os for desktops and all the Palaeolithic tablets from the early 00s.

Even hp being one of the no. 1 clients of ms managed to embarrass them by cancelling the windows tablet that Balmer demonstrated in ces (what a parody) and buying palm to get on the right side of the fence for the future.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by harryE123

they didn't kill it, it was vapourware to begin with just to get the pc crowd excited for something that wasn't there to begin with, when apple was shipping the ipad. Plus it was a crap backward device to begin with. Microsoft hasn't managed to design a decent interface or os for a smart phone, and they've been at it for decades, do you really expect them to deliver the paradigm shift to e-readers? Shhhhh....

Two screens is not the issue for academia, this is the wrong paradigm. The device should have a good screen size to cater for an a4 format, and be fast and responsive enough. It should also incorporate some innovation to cater for the lack of being able to physically browse through a paper, and for references, stacks of documents etc. etc. Two screens is just an anachronism that might look good on paper but won't be any more functional than just one. And obviously one can have two tablet format readers and use them as too screens.

Originally Posted by harryE123

Why would you get a tablet with windows 7, when there's the ipad? I won't go into the obvious points in terms of windows 7 that I made in another thread, but don't you realise this os isn't for arm cpus and arm cpus are the only viable option in terms of a tablet with decent battery, screen quality, responsiveness, heat, etc. etc.? You are an engineer, you should know all that. At least go with android in a few months, or wait for hp to take advantage of palm's ip and develop and web os tablet. Windows 7 is not a mobile os, it's not a touch os, and it's not a tablet os. It's an os for desktops and all the Palaeolithic tablets from the early 00s.

Even hp being one of the no. 1 clients of ms managed to embarrass them by cancelling the windows tablet that Balmer demonstrated in ces (what a parody) and buying palm to get on the right side of the fence for the future.

Do yourself a favor and research what has been dicussed for the upmteenth time here on MR. What you will find are reasonable people who don't speak in terms of absolutes. I doubt you are trolling with your IpAd is all powerful comment and your blantant anti-MS comments on your last comment. Then again...

People here have mostly been at this game for decades using every device around. We each know what we want and discussions have shown there is a fairly high degree of interest in a large format (and medium format) dual screen device. If you read the final paragraph of my first comment here you will see what my idea preferences are...and those are pretty much set in stone if I am around to see one in the next year or month, just dunno.

As for the dual screen being the "wrong paradigm" that has been asked and answered many times...the answer is yes and no. Also until these devices are out there nobody has any idea what format will work the best...

But let's not turn this into a nastygram thread...do some reading...becasue every "point" you think you are making is not going to work for a not insignificant number of people.

[harryE123]

so, after 4 paragraphs of your condescending rubbish, you don't actually have a response to any of the points I made. I kinda figured this from paragraph one...

What blatant anti-ms comments, these are all facts. The courrier was vapourware, windows 7 isn't suited for a modern tablet, ms hasn't even managed to develop a successful mobile os for smart phones, ms hasn't managed to develop a successful multi touch os, and their partners such as hp are embarrassing them by abandoning them right after the introduce another vapourware windows tablet, and going with web os instead. And windows 7 tablets such as the asus have been notoriously bad, unresponsive, buggy, slow, low on battery life, hot, thick....

But oh yeah you wan't to run windows 7 on a tablet...whatever...

Ah, btw, welcome to my ignore list, what a relief it will be to not read your delusional comments anymore.

[montsnmags]

Please note that this is a discussion-based community and as such everyone is entitled to share his or her opinion politely. Even if you personally consider another person's opinion useless, please let's all remain civil and polite to each other.

Mobileread Posting Guidelines.

Cheers,
Marc
Moderator

[harryE123]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

Please note that this is a discussion-based community and as such everyone is entitled to share his or her opinion politely. Even if you personally consider another person's opinion useless, please let's all remain civil and polite to each other.

Mobileread Posting Guidelines.

Cheers,
Marc
Moderator

Yeah well, I stated my opinion as factually as I could, with arguments, I didn't come like the other poster to offend in a condescending tone, four full paragraphs of condescending remarks with nil response to any of the points I made. I am just saying this for the record.

[dapriuk]

Originally Posted by harryE123

Why would you get a tablet with windows 7, when there's the ipad? I won't go into the obvious points in terms of windows 7 that I made in another thread, but don't you realise this os isn't for arm cpus and arm cpus are the only viable option in terms of a tablet with decent battery, screen quality, responsiveness, heat, etc. etc.? You are an engineer, you should know all that. At least go with android in a few months, or wait for hp to take advantage of palm's ip and develop and web os tablet. Windows 7 is not a mobile os, it's not a touch os, and it's not a tablet os. It's an os for desktops and all the Palaeolithic tablets from the early 00s.

Even hp being one of the no. 1 clients of ms managed to embarrass them by cancelling the windows tablet that Balmer demonstrated in ces (what a parody) and buying palm to get on the right side of the fence for the future.

I need a solution that provides me the equivalent of a lab notebook and the means to read technical documents typically A5 or A4 in size. I need to be able to share documents between various devices, print and email them and back them up. I have a number of Windows applications I need to use and I do small scale Java development.

So, for reading I 'd like an ePaper display of at least 9" (10-11" preferably) to cater for A5 and possible A4 technical material. I don't need a media player but something that can handle diagrams such as circuits and network diagrams.

For my notebook I need to run OneNote so I can re-use my existing notes and share notes between various devices. I also want support for various authoring tools and Lightroom 3. Windows 7 continues the improvements in handwriting recognition and tablet support introduced in Vista and improves the usability of OneNote

A Windows 7 Slate would fit the bill but an IPad would not, the latter can't run the apps I need and doesn't allow straightforward access to documents nor SD cards nor the range of USB peripherals I have. I am already familiar and comfortable with how Windows tablets work, I don't need or want to change all that just to accomodate the more restrictive iPad.

As far as reading books is concerned I find the backlit LCD/LED panels to be very tiring and they simply cannot compare with the ePaper displays on dedicated eReaders.

In the absence of a suitable slate I am looking at the new HP tablet (TM2-2050) which has a battery life of 7-8 hours, more than enough for me.