NY Times Article about Lost Kindles (and Other gadgets)

Boston · 09-07-2009, 11:42 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/te...e.html?_r=2&hp

Where do you think vendor responsibility starts/ends?

pilotbob · 09-07-2009, 12:03 PM

I understand the frustration of someone who has had a device stolen and them not wanting those people to be able to use it. But, I also understand the vendors wanting this request to come from duly appointed authority.

It a vendor just believed every person that told them something was stolen and to render it useless you KNOW that people will take advantage of this... to get back at people they have had an argument with... or a seller that decided they didn't get enough money for the device.

Also, the article mentions that the owner of the stolen kindle "canceled his Amazon account". There is really no reason to do that. If you go onto your "manage my kindle" page you can unregister the device from your account with a simple mouse click and the new "owner" won't be able to buy books using your account.

BOb

Boston · 09-07-2009, 12:46 PM

Admittedly, the article helped bridge my understanding about why Amazon isn't more helpful in tracking lost devices (as I had never thought about the "false claim" perspective).

However, I think there is more of a middle ground as some suggest...such as requiring a bill of sale or confirmation to activate the Kindle on a new account.

That they didn't answer replies from an individual offering to submit a police report suggests that they just may not want to help. The article says that in other countries, this is not the case and would be interested in hearing how it works in those countries (UK is mentioned).

Greg Anos · 09-07-2009, 02:11 PM

This sounds like a job for automation....

Yes, one $300 device is not worth a police department's time. But how about 100? or 1000?

It seems to me that a major city's police department could just gather up all the stolen Kindles reported in a month and serve one big pile of subpoenas at once, then process the results, rather that do it one at a time. Maybe they could all be forwarded to the town where the amazon headquarters resides so they can be processed for devices US wide....

Sydney's Mom · 09-08-2009, 12:42 PM

I think this is a matter of personal responsibility. I didn't buy lojack for my laptop - and consequently, I don't leave it out in my car. This would turn out to be a huge effort - I can understand Amazon not wanting to be involved.

Yes, it is frustrating, knowing you left your kindle on a plane, and knowing someone found it and is using it. The reason it is a big deal here is the amount at issue - you would think that would cause people to be more cautious. I taped a business card inside my kindle cover, and to the back of the unit. If I lose it, I will be mad at myself, and then disappointed but not surprised if no one turns it in.

fugazied · 09-09-2009, 09:22 PM

Yeah it's a bit of a gray area I suppose. How does Amazon know that it's stolen and you didn't simply give it to your ex-girlfriend and want to stalk her!

I am definitely ultra paranoid about my iPhone and Kindle, I know that neither Apple or Amazon would help me much if at all and they are both 'hot products' which thieves would love to get.

Sydney's Mom · 09-10-2009, 03:22 PM

I didn't know the Kindle was popular with thieves. I guess that means theives read?

Acextreme · 09-13-2009, 03:48 AM

Hey, can you register the same Kindle (i.e. same serial number) on 2 different Amazon accounts? If not, then there's an easy solution. Create a new Amazon account and switch to that one, then remove all billing and credit card info on your old account but leave the registration info there.

Download all the ebooks from your old account and transfer it via USB to your new Kindle, and voila, that fella can't register your lost Kindle and hence can't read Kindle books...

Lilly · 09-13-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acextreme

Hey, can you register the same Kindle (i.e. same serial number) on 2 different Amazon accounts? If not, then there's an easy solution. Create a new Amazon account and switch to that one, then remove all billing and credit card info on your old account but leave the registration info there.

Download all the ebooks from your old account and transfer it via USB to your new Kindle, and voila, that fella can't register your lost Kindle and hence can't read Kindle books...

It will be a cat and mouse game since the Kindle can be de-registered by going to the Settings on the Kindle.

pilotbob · 09-13-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly

It will be a cat and mouse game since the Kindle can be de-registered by going to the Settings on the Kindle.

I don't think you can deregister the kindle (from the device) without whispernet access. Or, if you can, Amazon won't be aware of it.

You also can't have a Kindle registered to more than one account. If you did that would make it very easy to share ebooks... something they don't want you doing.

BOb

Lilly · 09-13-2009, 11:59 AM

Amazon just don't want to help because it can be done. Verizon don't register stolen phones. If you buy a use lock Verizon cell phone, you can ask the owner for the EIN number so you can call the provider to make sure it's not a stolen phone or the EIN is clear. Why not brick the Kindle and before someone buys it, you can ask for the serial number to check to make sure that it's a usable product. Since cell phone companies begin to implement this structure; most lost cell phone are returned.

pilotbob · 09-13-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly

Amazon just don't want to help because it can be done. Verizon don't register stolen phones. If you buy a use lock Verizon cell phone, you can ask the owner for the EIN number so you can call the provider to make sure it's not a stolen phone or the EIN is clear. Why not brick the Kindle and before someone buys it, you can ask for the serial number to check to make sure that it's a usable product. Since cell phone companies begin to implement this structure; most lost cell phone are returned.

There is still the verification issue. How do they trust that when you call in a stolen SN it is legit report?

BOb

Lilly · 09-13-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I don't think you can deregister the kindle (from the device) without whispernet access. Or, if you can, Amazon won't be aware of it.

You also can't have a Kindle registered to more than one account. If you did that would make it very easy to share ebooks... something they don't want you doing.

BOb

So why would the Whispernet not work? I don't remember turning on the Whispernet when I de-registered my K1 to send to it's new owner in February. I did do it using the Kindle from the Setting section, that much I know. It never accured to me to use the computer. I know you can't have the Kindle register to 2 accounts; I mean the thief will just keep deregistering it and re-register it to their account till one of them give up.

pilotbob · 09-13-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly

So why would the Whispernet not work? I don't remember turning on the Whispernet when I de-registered my K1 to send to it's new owner in February.

well... think about it. The Kindles s/n is registered to your account in Amazons database. If you "deregister" your Kindle from the device and whispernet is off... then there is no way for Amazon to know this and it will still be registered. I am guessing whomever you sent it to turned whispernet on, as soon as they did that it removed itself from your account.

I have tested this... deregistering with the wireless off the kindle still showed up on my manage your kindle page.

That said, the OP is outside the US, so there is no way that the S/N will be removed from his account if he can only deregister from the device.

BOb

Ervserver · 09-14-2009, 01:57 AM

Get some of those stickers from Rat Shack that say "Protected by Acme Security" nobody will steal your stuff then

09-07-2009, 11:42 AM	#1
Boston Fanatic Posts: 555 Karma: 40032 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Boston :) Device: Kindle, Kobo Aura H20, Pixel XL	NY Times Article about Lost Kindles (and Other gadgets) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/07/te...e.html?_r=2&hp Where do you think vendor responsibility starts/ends?

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09-07-2009, 12:03 PM	#2
pilotbob Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,832 Karma: 11844413 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tampa, FL USA Device: Kindle Touch	I understand the frustration of someone who has had a device stolen and them not wanting those people to be able to use it. But, I also understand the vendors wanting this request to come from duly appointed authority. It a vendor just believed every person that told them something was stolen and to render it useless you KNOW that people will take advantage of this... to get back at people they have had an argument with... or a seller that decided they didn't get enough money for the device. Also, the article mentions that the owner of the stolen kindle "canceled his Amazon account". There is really no reason to do that. If you go onto your "manage my kindle" page you can unregister the device from your account with a simple mouse click and the new "owner" won't be able to buy books using your account. BOb

09-07-2009, 12:46 PM	#3
Boston Fanatic Posts: 555 Karma: 40032 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Boston :) Device: Kindle, Kobo Aura H20, Pixel XL	Admittedly, the article helped bridge my understanding about why Amazon isn't more helpful in tracking lost devices (as I had never thought about the "false claim" perspective). However, I think there is more of a middle ground as some suggest...such as requiring a bill of sale or confirmation to activate the Kindle on a new account. That they didn't answer replies from an individual offering to submit a police report suggests that they just may not want to help. The article says that in other countries, this is not the case and would be interested in hearing how it works in those countries (UK is mentioned).

09-07-2009, 02:11 PM	#4
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,492 Karma: 37057604 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	This sounds like a job for automation.... Yes, one $300 device is not worth a police department's time. But how about 100? or 1000? It seems to me that a major city's police department could just gather up all the stolen Kindles reported in a month and serve one big pile of subpoenas at once, then process the results, rather that do it one at a time. Maybe they could all be forwarded to the town where the amazon headquarters resides so they can be processed for devices US wide....

09-08-2009, 12:42 PM	#5
Sydney's Mom Wizard Posts: 2,896 Karma: 6995721 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Idaho, on the side of a mountain Device: Kindle Oasis, Fire 3d Gen and 5th Gen and Samsung Tab S	I think this is a matter of personal responsibility. I didn't buy lojack for my laptop - and consequently, I don't leave it out in my car. This would turn out to be a huge effort - I can understand Amazon not wanting to be involved. Yes, it is frustrating, knowing you left your kindle on a plane, and knowing someone found it and is using it. The reason it is a big deal here is the amount at issue - you would think that would cause people to be more cautious. I taped a business card inside my kindle cover, and to the back of the unit. If I lose it, I will be mad at myself, and then disappointed but not surprised if no one turns it in.

09-09-2009, 09:22 PM	#6
fugazied Wizard Posts: 1,305 Karma: 1958 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: iPod Touch	Yeah it's a bit of a gray area I suppose. How does Amazon know that it's stolen and you didn't simply give it to your ex-girlfriend and want to stalk her! I am definitely ultra paranoid about my iPhone and Kindle, I know that neither Apple or Amazon would help me much if at all and they are both 'hot products' which thieves would love to get.

09-10-2009, 03:22 PM	#7
Sydney's Mom Wizard Posts: 2,896 Karma: 6995721 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Idaho, on the side of a mountain Device: Kindle Oasis, Fire 3d Gen and 5th Gen and Samsung Tab S	I didn't know the Kindle was popular with thieves. I guess that means theives read?

09-13-2009, 03:48 AM	#8
Acextreme Enthusiast Posts: 40 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: none	Hey, can you register the same Kindle (i.e. same serial number) on 2 different Amazon accounts? If not, then there's an easy solution. Create a new Amazon account and switch to that one, then remove all billing and credit card info on your old account but leave the registration info there. Download all the ebooks from your old account and transfer it via USB to your new Kindle, and voila, that fella can't register your lost Kindle and hence can't read Kindle books...

09-13-2009, 11:59 AM	#11
Lilly Guru Posts: 688 Karma: 2090 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Sony PRS-505, PRS-900 & PRS-950, Amazon Kindle2	Amazon just don't want to help because it can be done. Verizon don't register stolen phones. If you buy a use lock Verizon cell phone, you can ask the owner for the EIN number so you can call the provider to make sure it's not a stolen phone or the EIN is clear. Why not brick the Kindle and before someone buys it, you can ask for the serial number to check to make sure that it's a usable product. Since cell phone companies begin to implement this structure; most lost cell phone are returned.

09-14-2009, 01:57 AM	#15
Ervserver Wizard Posts: 2,624 Karma: 1008294 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Iowa, USA Device: Nook Simple Touch	Get some of those stickers from Rat Shack that say "Protected by Acme Security" nobody will steal your stuff then

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