Unavailability of any more "serious" stores.

[zerospinboson]

I just bought my first ebook today, [to wit: Robert Fagles's translation of the Odyssey] and I have to say I'm unimpressed with the number of titles on offer that interest me.
I'm currently working my way through hardcover editions of Dostoevsky's Demons and Gogol's Dead Souls, both translated by Pevear & Volokhonsky and, after looking at the 7 most-mentioned ebook stores, I've come to the conclusion that only 2 of their translations on offer as ebooks at all: War & Peace and Anna Karenina. Most of their translations (currently in print@Everyman's Library (RandomHouse)) cannot be found at all online, and the price for the two titles that are available is atrocious (19$ for W&P and 17$ for AK).

However, these two titles are pretty much the whole extent of what's on offer by way of non-public domain (i.e., recent) translations of Russian titles that I can find on offer. Similarly for Don Quixote, both the Rutherford and Grossman (recent) translations are sold at the pback RRP, and only at a few of these stores. Oddly, Fagles' translation of the Aeneïd is really cheap, but his translation of the Odyssey seems to be at the "normal" price, and the Iliad isn't even available in any form. Sophocles's and Euripides's tragedies (Antigone etc. and the Oresteia resp.) are similarly available at some stores, but not most; the list goes on like this.
While there are certainly Public Domain offerings of these titles to be found, for a reasonable fee (although you can obviously format those yourself as well), I would hazard a guess that most people prefer contemporary translations, especially given the trend of the past 20-30 years or so towards being somewhat more faithful to the style of the original work, rather than letting the translator's voice outweigh the author's, so I would say that there should be more than a bit of interest in these works if they were indeed offered.

So, although I can understand how some stores might want to focus on/specialize in specific genres, I don't really see why they wouldn't want to offer books that are available as ebooks at other stores but not theirs, as, given the current total supply of ebooks available from publishers, diversity is enough of a problem as it is. It can't be that the books are that expensive to stock, so why not offer them?
Does anyone have a clue why the selection of these kinds of titles at most stores is so limited? Is it really that everyone who frequents MR only reads fantasy/scifi/horror/whatever other genre applies, or is this assumed by evil Them? (Fictionwise, for instance, has almost no titles I'd be interested in buying, apart from Rutherford's Don Quixote, which I already own in paper, so am not interested in buying at the current price). I'm really fairly curious to hear other people's thoughts on this.



Edit: could a mod please change "ebook s" to "stores", so that the question is a bit clearer? thanks.

[Greg Anos]

ZBS, It's not just "serious" titles. There are many books of Foreign Language than have been translated that aren't available in e-book form. Here's a serious example - where's the e-book of Ostwald Spengler's Decline Of The West?
It's in the public domain in German. (Spengler died in 1936, it went PD in 2007)

Or: (In no particular order)

The Don Camillo comedy books. (From Italian)

The Horse Without a Head. (from the French)

Stanislaw Lem? (from Polish)

I think it iis the end result of the blockbuster mentality. If it's not a blockbuster, publishers aren't going to lift a finger...

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

It can't be that the books are that expensive to stock, so why not offer them?

But it can. Niche market books are always more expensive than mainstream ones, and niche market books that the general public can't tell apart from public domain ones are hard to sell.

The average reader (that's me) has limited interest in classics, and no awareness of the differences between translations. (I know there's differences. I don't know what they are, or whose are better, nor do I care, for the most part.)

So offering a specific, modern translation alongside an older, public domain translation generally means the modern one won't sell, and is a waste of bandwidth. (Or the modern one sells--and then customers complain because they didn't see the cheaper one. Bad business, that.) It may not be worth the hassle of tracking down the copyright on the modern translation & trying to convince the owner to allow it to be placed in ebook format.

Does anyone have a clue why the selection of these kinds of titles at most stores is so limited? Is it really that everyone who frequents MR only reads fantasy/scifi/horror/whatever other genre applies, or is this assumed by evil Them?

Ebook readers are still a niche market, one that's dominated by techie geeks. Techie geeks are prone to fantasy/scifi/horror genres. Also, f/sf/h ebooks were being distributed online in text format for years before there were ebook readers, so the market for those genres was known to exist.

While the readers are getting a more mainstream foothold, they're being marketed to the "businessperson on vacation" crowd--again, not strong readers of classical literature.

Ebook devices have not yet been seriously marketed to the academic crowd. The iLiad tries, I believe, but is too expensive... but it'll take a good PDF reader with annotation support to get anywhere in that market. Once there's a good, relatively cheap (under $500, preferably under $400), 9"+ screen with annotated/bookmarked PDF support, then you'll start seeing more diversity in classic literature, textbooks and useful manuals in ebook formats. (Most of 'em will be PDFs. But with a reader that has a 9" screen and perhaps native ability to remove whitespace, that should be at least tolerable.)

[wallcraft]

Probably the way to find these ebooks, if they exist, is to look on the publisher's web sites.

On the other hand, try ebookprice.info which is the best multi-store search I have come across. I don't think it allows search by translator though.

[brecklundin]

I think the ONLY and far best solution to get these classics into ebook format are via PG & Feedbooks (as well as others) with volunteers doing yeoman duty to scan, OCR and correct the scanned text on a page by page basis. No retail company will do this and find it profitable. Even if they use the sweatshop labor to be had in some 3rd world country where they can exploit the folks there...still at least the might have some work.

The best solution and most reliable will always be volunteer based. Google is helping as well in many of the PDF scanned versions at least provide source for someone to start with even if they do not have the actual text.

Nice topic, it has been something I have wondered about many times as well.

Of course I will not mention the number of times in my life I have tried to read Homer...I love it but getting the most out of it takes a lot of work. Oh, wait you are not meaning Homer Jay Simpson, you mean Homer's The Odyssey...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The average reader (that's me) has limited interest in classics, and no awareness of the differences between translations. (I know there's differences. I don't know what they are, or whose are better, nor do I care, for the most part.)

So offering a specific, modern translation alongside an older, public domain translation generally means the modern one won't sell, and is a waste of bandwidth. (Or the modern one sells--and then customers complain because they didn't see the cheaper one. Bad business, that.) It may not be worth the hassle of tracking down the copyright on the modern translation & trying to convince the owner to allow it to be placed in ebook format.

What makes "good" editions of the classics "good" is, generally speaking, things like good introductions, footnotes, etc. That's why I have a bookshelf full of "Penguin Classics" and "Oxford World Classics" editions, even though virtually all the books are available "free".

Good though PD books are, they generally don't give you these things. I honestly think that there is a market for good commercial editions of the classics. The Penguin "Enhanced eBook" edition of "Pride and Prejudice" is an excellent example of what can be achieved if the publisher has the desire to do it right.

[Jellby]

"Classics" doesn't mean translated, as far as I know... unless you mean old Greek and Roman authors. But if Don Quixote is a classic, then Shakespeare is classic too, and it's not translated (into English).

New translations or editions would be welcome. I'm very suspicious of public-domain works offered for sale at very low prices... I feel most of them are direct conversions of Project Gutenberg versions, with no care with formatting or proofreading.

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

But it can. Niche market books are always more expensive than mainstream ones, and niche market books that the general public can't tell apart from public domain ones are hard to sell.
The average reader (that's me) has limited interest in classics, and no awareness of the differences between translations. (I know there's differences. I don't know what they are, or whose are better, nor do I care, for the most part.)
So offering a specific, modern translation alongside an older, public domain translation generally means the modern one won't sell, and is a waste of bandwidth.

Sure, but my point is that these ebook editions - sometimes - already exist, but then they're still not being stocked. Where there is no supply, and the only classics offered have those terrible "standard ebook" covers, that don't really promise anything enjoyable (people seem to be scared of the word), they won't sell either. (Also, just look at the unattractive, undifferentiated covers..)
The whole point of ebook stores seems to me that storage doesn't cost anything, so why not have stuff that exists already. (perhaps .01c per book)

Ebook readers are still a niche market, one that's dominated by techie geeks. Techie geeks are prone to fantasy/scifi/horror genres. Also, f/sf/h ebooks were being distributed online in text format for years before there were ebook readers, so the market for those genres was known to exist.
While the readers are getting a more mainstream foothold, they're being marketed to the "businessperson on vacation" crowd--again, not strong readers of classical literature.

Sure, but they also don't have - much of a - choice
Anyway, if there is one classic that should be appreciable for a large audience, it's a well-translated version of Don Quixote. Obviously, this book is there already, but it's priced at double the price of most of those scifi/fant etc. books.. Not much of an incentive to buy it.

Originally Posted by Jellby

"Classics" doesn't mean translated, as far as I know... unless you mean old Greek and Roman authors. But if Don Quixote is a classic, then Shakespeare is classic too, and it's not translated (into English).

Yes, but my point is specifically that these modern translations do exist. Just not in electronic form (well, a few of them do, but they're not even the obvious choices, so I don't really see the logic behind it). I Want More!

Originally Posted by Jellby

New translations or editions would be welcome. I'm very suspicious of public-domain works offered for sale at very low prices... I feel most of them are direct conversions of Project Gutenberg versions, with no care with formatting or proofreading.

Probably, but that isn't what interests me, really. It just bothers me that books that have an ebook edition aren't being offered, or only offered at some stores, but not others. That's what I don't get.
The question that interests me is: why is the supply as limited as it is. I will bet you a fortune that, if you had to choose (or read it as an assignment, either for a class or for yourself) you will find you would find, say, Mark Musa's translation of the Divine Comedy a whole lot more readable than, say, H. W. Longfellow's (even if both are probably still fairly hard to get into, because of the enormous number of allusions etc in the work, at least Musa's version offers them).

[sirbruce]

There are so many mainstream and genre backlist books I'd rather see first that the translations of old classics are pretty far down my list.

[BenG]

The translation you choose can make a big difference in your enjoyment of a book. The Grossman translation of Don Quixote was one of the first things I bought for my K2, and back in 2001 when a couple of new translations of The Mysterious Island came out, I bought the hardback right away. I got the Jordan Stump translation. These were the first accurate English translations.

There are so many mainstream and genre backlist books I'd rather see first that the translations of old classics are pretty far down my list.

These are mainstream, it's the bestsellers that are usually genre fiction. But the main advantage of ebooks is the possibility of choice and universal availability, but we haven't quite gotten there yet.

Stanislaw Lem? (from Polish)

Does a direct translation of Solaris exist in a paper edition? The version I read was an English translation of the French translation.

[NuclearWinter]

Yes! I've used the Amazon "request this in ebook format" about a dozen times for the Pevear & Volokhonsky translation of Brothers Karamazov. It surprises me as Random House generally seem to be one of the publishers more interested in the ebook market.

Also how is it possible that there are no works from Nabokov in ebook format yet?