Tapwave Zodiac is no more

Chaos · 07-27-2005, 11:54 PM

As reported on 1src and Engadget, as of two days ago (!), Tapwave has discontinued the Zodiac. The Tapwave website doesn't have much. Only a small notice, and two links.

Quote:

We are sorry to inform you that the Zodiac business was discontinued and service and support are no longer available as of July 25th 2005.

...

We thank you for your past interest and support and apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused. If you have an outstanding claim with the company, Ueker and Associates will be contacting you shortly.

That last sentence almost makes it seem like they went bankrupt. Two Palm OS vendors down, only one* left. Now that both Sony and Tapwave are gone, how much longer can Palm OS really last?

*As pointed out by several people replying to this, LG has a licence to use Palm OS, but they have yet to produce anything. So that's two down, two to go, counting LG...

Colin Dunstan · 07-28-2005, 01:35 AM

*bummer*

You are right about your last assumption. U&A are liquidation specialists in the Bay Area who mop up after bankruptcies.

http://ueckerassoc.com/

This is so very sad.

Alexander Turcic · 07-28-2005, 03:05 AM

PalmAddicts has some info of what happened to the dev guys at Tabwave:

I have heard from a private source that the technical staff has been picked up by another company, and I hope this is indeed true. My own Zodiac now goes up on the shelf as another example of innovative engineering that tried and ultimately failed.

More at PalmAddicts

Chaos · 07-28-2005, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Dunstan

You are right about your last assumption. U&A are liquidation specialists in the Bay Area who mop up after bankruptcies.

http://ueckerassoc.com/

Thanks for the link. I assumed that they were something of the sort, but a quick Google revealed nothing...

(Offtopic: That's a horrible webpage - who uses flash for buttons?!!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander

"My own Zodiac now goes up on the shelf as another example of innovative engineering that tried and ultimately failed."

Innovation seems to die all too much...

Look at someone like Dell - they sell things cheap, but they don't really create anything innovative. Sure, I'll give points that the Axim seems to be a good (albeit Windows

) device, but it's not innovative... They just got into the market when they could do it cheaply and make a profit.

That seems to be the way all-too-many companies are going. What with the recent HP layoffs, and Dell's traditional lack-of-innovation, who's really left that actually can make something new?

rmeister0 · 07-28-2005, 11:07 AM

I fail to see what was so innovative about the Zodiac; even at the time it seemed to be to be chasing a crowded market that didn't want it.

Dell doesn't create new product types or 'innovate' on purpose - it's the business model to move into markets that are already developed and use massive economics of scale to drive down cost. It has worked very well for them.

Apple could probably do some interesting things in the PDA space, especially given their recent experience building robust portable devices. However, since it's a market in regression to begin with, I doubt there's any interest. Too bad. They could have produced a LifeDrive before Palm did.

Traecer Prime · 07-28-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos

Now that both Sony and Tapwave are gone, how much longer can Palm OS really last?

At least until 2009, when the Palm/PalmSource deal runs out. The word is today that Palm still has 41% of new handheld shipments. (Admittedly, not clear whether "handheld" means PDAs+smartphones, just PDAs, or something else.) Even if Palm were to switch to a new OS, the minimum commitment they'll be forced to pay will guarantee they'll make some device based on Palm OS.

hacker · 07-28-2005, 11:47 AM

We are sorry to inform you that the Zodiac business was discontinued and service and support are no longer available as of July 25th 2005.

The important thing in their statement is bolded above. They're not just discontinuing the device, they're discontinuing service and support, and this is a clear indication that they're closing their doors.

THAT is the sad part. They go the path of TRG/Handera, I guess.

Alexander Turcic · 07-28-2005, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traecer Prime

At least until 2009, when the Palm/PalmSource deal runs out. The word is today that Palm still has 41% of new handheld shipments. (Admittedly, not clear whether "handheld" means PDAs+smartphones, just PDAs, or something else.)

That report that got out today mentioning 41% includes the Treo to the handheld count...

derekweb · 07-28-2005, 01:06 PM

I was under the impression that Tapwave was going to still be around, but just discontinuing the zodiac in favor of using their technologies for more profitable sales.

This comes as a rather big shock! I'm admittedly very depressed on this. They had great quality, and one hell of a good product.

Someone mentioned that they (Tapwave) didn't innovate. I would disagree. Sony came closest to having a similar hardware setup, but in as much as they were different, they were also better! Somehow, I just don't see how they could fail (but they did) to get the mass developer group and supply chain on board for marketing. They did indeed have better quality.

My wife has a very recently purchased (I think it's now 3 months old) Zod2. I'm glad I got it for her when I did. Despite only having a 200 mhz processor, it's dedicated 8mb ATI graphics chip and landscape capability and stereo speakers built in are just ahead of anything Palm puts out today, and the Zod2 is what,... 2 years old in development time? And the price was even cheaper!!

Sony had similar stories to that. They were ahead of the curve in performance, style, and overall capability. They're only problem was pricing. as they were a lot more expensive.

Overall, this sucks.

Only Samsung, LG and Palm now left selling PalmOS devices, and LG hasn't even put a product out on the market yet. Reminder: Samsung put out one of the Palm OS4x flip phones. This device was circa Palm Vx and m500.

Mattoquai · 07-28-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos

Two Palm OS vendors down, only one left. Now that both Sony and Tapwave are gone, how much longer can Palm OS really last?

Maybe everyone here already knows, but I just read that LG (The Korean CE-producer) took a license in Palm OS for their future smartphones. They didn't mention how large the investment was, but I think it will be very welcome for Palm at he moment:
"Mobile phone manufacturer LG Electronics Inc. has agreed to use a version of the Palm OS designed by Palmsource Inc. in a future smart phone, which might be the first phone to use a Linux-based version of Palm OS that is under development."

More info here...

I think Palm is doing the right thing by moving more and more to the smartphone business.

Pride Of Lions · 07-29-2005, 12:55 AM

The writing's been on the wall for a while now, but it's still kinda sad to see it actually come tumbling down. Hope springs eternal...

I still don't believe that Palm is going to innovate and keep the Palm OS market afloat. I have the feeling that when my Z2 goes bye-bye, I may have to buy a Lifedrive (whichi won't be for a while, hopefully. I just know that whenever it happens, the Lifedrive and the Treo 650 will still be the staples of the Palm lineup.)

Either that, or it's "Dark Side, here I come!" sigh.
POL9A

Laurens · 07-29-2005, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pride Of Lions

I still don't believe that Palm is going to innovate and keep the Palm OS market afloat. I have the feeling that when my Z2 goes bye-bye, I may have to buy a Lifedrive (whichi won't be for a while, hopefully. I just know that whenever it happens, the Lifedrive and the Treo 650 will still be the staples of the Palm lineup.)

I don't think Palm needs to innovate that much to remain competitive. They just have to deliver a unit that has all the high-end features that users are craving for: WiFi, Bluetooth, Hires+ and a replaceable battery. As it stands, these features are scattered across their product line, but no single model has it all.

Pride Of Lions · 07-29-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurens

They just have to deliver a unit that has all the high-end features that users are craving for: WiFi, Bluetooth, Hires+ and a replaceable battery.

That takes a certain willingness to think outside of their current box, and I don't think they are willing to do that. So, it's not innovation in the sense of creating a new handheld paradigm, but rather the ability to put out a power PDA with the features you've mentioned.

They've proven that they are content spreading these features across their line and forcing customers to pick which feature they most want.
POL9A

Colin Dunstan · 07-29-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pride Of Lions

That takes a certain willingness to think outside of their current box, and I don't think they are willing to do that.

I think Palm/One was never willing to think outside their box. If it hadn't been for Sony entering the PDA game one day, Palm would probably still be selling the Palm Vx as its current top model. Ok, perhaps a bit over-exaggerated, but I firmly stick to my point: without the right competitor on the Palm OS platform, Palm will lose the willingness to innovate.

Brian · 07-29-2005, 02:17 PM

I give the Tapwave team a lot of credit for trying. Two years after the Zodiac was released, it's still has one of the best feature sets and capabilities of any Palm OS device.

I'm hoping Palm sees some value in the Tapwave's team's ability to put together a great device and customize Garnet and they decide that the experience and IP of Tapwave would be worth acquiring for the development of the LifeDrive line.

My Z2 still works fine, and I intend to use it as long as it still works. I also plan on doing whatever I can to help keep the Zodiac user community alive and well. Plans are already underway to ensure that current and future Zodiac owners as well as developers will have the resources necessary to keep the platform going.

We're going to look to the Newton community as an example

.

Brian

07-28-2005, 01:35 AM	#2
Colin Dunstan Is papyrophobic! Posts: 1,926 Karma: 1009999 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Device: Dell Axim	bummer You are right about your last assumption. U&A are liquidation specialists in the Bay Area who mop up after bankruptcies. http://ueckerassoc.com/ This is so very sad.

07-28-2005, 03:05 AM	#3
Alexander Turcic Fully Converged Posts: 18,175 Karma: 14021202 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Switzerland Device: Too many to count here.	PalmAddicts has some info of what happened to the dev guys at Tabwave: I have heard from a private source that the technical staff has been picked up by another company, and I hope this is indeed true. My own Zodiac now goes up on the shelf as another example of innovative engineering that tried and ultimately failed. More at PalmAddicts

07-28-2005, 11:07 AM	#5
rmeister0 Addict Posts: 270 Karma: 298 Join Date: Mar 2005	I fail to see what was so innovative about the Zodiac; even at the time it seemed to be to be chasing a crowded market that didn't want it. Dell doesn't create new product types or 'innovate' on purpose - it's the business model to move into markets that are already developed and use massive economics of scale to drive down cost. It has worked very well for them. Apple could probably do some interesting things in the PDA space, especially given their recent experience building robust portable devices. However, since it's a market in regression to begin with, I doubt there's any interest. Too bad. They could have produced a LifeDrive before Palm did.

07-28-2005, 11:47 AM	#7
hacker Technology Mercenary Posts: 617 Karma: 2561 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: East Lyme, CT Device: Direct Neural Implant	We are sorry to inform you that the Zodiac business was discontinued and service and support are no longer available* as of July 25th 2005.* The important thing in their statement is bolded above. They're not just discontinuing the device, they're discontinuing service and support, and this is a clear indication that they're closing their doors. THAT is the sad part. They go the path of TRG/Handera, I guess.

07-28-2005, 01:06 PM	#9
derekweb Groupie Posts: 160 Karma: 3134 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: United States Device: Palm Treo 700p & iPaq hx2755	I was under the impression that Tapwave was going to still be around, but just discontinuing the zodiac in favor of using their technologies for more profitable sales. This comes as a rather big shock! I'm admittedly very depressed on this. They had great quality, and one hell of a good product. Someone mentioned that they (Tapwave) didn't innovate. I would disagree. Sony came closest to having a similar hardware setup, but in as much as they were different, they were also better! Somehow, I just don't see how they could fail (but they did) to get the mass developer group and supply chain on board for marketing. They did indeed have better quality. My wife has a very recently purchased (I think it's now 3 months old) Zod2. I'm glad I got it for her when I did. Despite only having a 200 mhz processor, it's dedicated 8mb ATI graphics chip and landscape capability and stereo speakers built in are just ahead of anything Palm puts out today, and the Zod2 is what,... 2 years old in development time? And the price was even cheaper!! Sony had similar stories to that. They were ahead of the curve in performance, style, and overall capability. They're only problem was pricing. as they were a lot more expensive. Overall, this sucks. Only Samsung, LG and Palm now left selling PalmOS devices, and LG hasn't even put a product out on the market yet. Reminder: Samsung put out one of the Palm OS4x flip phones. This device was circa Palm Vx and m500.

07-29-2005, 12:55 AM	#11
Pride Of Lions just kinda geeky Posts: 381 Karma: 30 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oakland, California Device: iPhone	The writing's been on the wall for a while now, but it's still kinda sad to see it actually come tumbling down. Hope springs eternal... I still don't believe that Palm is going to innovate and keep the Palm OS market afloat. I have the feeling that when my Z2 goes bye-bye, I may have to buy a Lifedrive (whichi won't be for a while, hopefully. I just know that whenever it happens, the Lifedrive and the Treo 650 will still be the staples of the Palm lineup.) Either that, or it's "Dark Side, here I come!" sigh. POL9A

07-29-2005, 02:17 PM	#15
Brian MobileRead Editor Posts: 447 Karma: 84 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Massachusetts Device: Treo 700p, Zodiac2	I give the Tapwave team a lot of credit for trying. Two years after the Zodiac was released, it's still has one of the best feature sets and capabilities of any Palm OS device. I'm hoping Palm sees some value in the Tapwave's team's ability to put together a great device and customize Garnet and they decide that the experience and IP of Tapwave would be worth acquiring for the development of the LifeDrive line. My Z2 still works fine, and I intend to use it as long as it still works. I also plan on doing whatever I can to help keep the Zodiac user community alive and well. Plans are already underway to ensure that current and future Zodiac owners as well as developers will have the resources necessary to keep the platform going. We're going to look to the Newton community as an example . Brian

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