Stylistic changes to a text?

corroonb · 08-14-2009, 11:48 AM

I didn't quite know where to put this question or how to title the thread but I'll ask here anyway.

Does anyone know if it's possible (or common) for small corrections to be made to an author's work without that author's knowledge or consent? I don't mean spelling or grammar correction but stylistic elements that may be changed in accordance to usage between generations.

What I'm particularly interested in here is in the hyphenation of compound words. I've seen some ebooks (not of terrible quality either) where a lot of the hyphens have been stripped from the text as I discovered when checking these compound words in Google Books. I myself am not a fan of hyphenated compound words but I'd like the text to be as accurate as possible. This is probably a formatting error but I'd like to be sure.

I've seen that some British writers have works in American English which I always find strange.

HarryT · 08-14-2009, 11:53 AM

Certainly when it comes to the "classics", many editors will choose to use "modern" punctuation rather than that which was prevelent at the time the book was written.

Eg, until the early 20th century, "today", and "tomorrow" were normally written "to-day" and "to-morrow". Some editors of, say, Dickens, will keep the original spelling (with the hyphens), others will remove the hyphens to conform to modern usage.

Is that what you were asking?

corroonb · 08-14-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly when it comes to the "classics", many editors will choose to use "modern" punctuation rather than that which was prevelent at the time the book was written.

Eg, until the early 20th century, "today", and "tomorrow" were normally written "to-day" and "to-morrow". Some editors of, say, Dickens, will keep the original spelling (with the hyphens), others will remove the hyphens to conform to modern usage.

Is that what you were asking?

Yes, somewhat, thanks.

So this kind of thing is acceptable in certain cases?

The case you mention is rather more clear cut than what I was thinking of. In a book I'm proofing I've come across a double hyphenated word and because it appears to be in the original text, I chose to leave it as it was even though I thought it was stylistically horrible. The book isn't even that old either.

HarryT · 08-14-2009, 12:18 PM

I think that one can safely regard that kind of thing as an "editorial decision". If you look at Google page scans of the classics, you'll find that if there are half a dozen different editions, no two of them will be identical at the level of punctuation and hyphenation.

DaleDe · 08-14-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corroonb

Yes, somewhat, thanks.

So this kind of thing is acceptable in certain cases?

The case you mention is rather more clear cut than what I was thinking of. In a book I'm proofing I've come across a double hyphenated word and because it appears to be in the original text, I chose to leave it as it was even though I thought it was stylistically horrible. The book isn't even that old either.

Sometimes two hyphens in a row are used to represent an mdash. I always try and replace them.

Dale

corroonb · 08-14-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Sometimes two hyphens in a row are used to represent an mdash. I always try and replace them.

Dale

I mean two separate hyphens. Like no-holds-barred.

Thanks Harry, I didn't realise that the texts would have such differences.

Jellby · 08-14-2009, 12:49 PM

I think it's more important to keep consistency across the text. In HarryT's example, choose whether you want "today" or "to-day", and stick to that decision everywhere (I had to do exactly that recently with Galsworthy works).

Note, too, that by keeping the punctuation and spelling as in the "original", you are not always being true to the author, but to the original editor or publisher, as those decisions were typically not taken by the authors. But it can be different, Lewis Carroll wrote consistently "ca'n't", "wo'n't", etc., and it was his choice, not the editor's.

So... it depends

Hellmark · 08-14-2009, 01:17 PM

I'm on the camp where I don't think that newer editors should change the text from how it originally was. Too often things get changed too much from the original intent. Yeah, they wrote different, but isn't that part of the point? Getting that historical perspective.

DaleDe · 08-14-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corroonb

I mean two separate hyphens. Like no-holds-barred.

Thanks Harry, I didn't realise that the texts would have such differences.

Sorry I misunderstood. Today we might say 'no holds barred' but I kind of like the hyphens myself in a catch phrase.

Dale

igorsk · 08-14-2009, 02:09 PM

I think the convention (rule?) is to use hyphens for adjectives and spaces in other cases. I.e. "He's got a no-holds-barred attitude" but "No holds barred in battle for late-night viewers."

griffonwing · 08-14-2009, 02:12 PM

Also, if memory serves, a phrase is correct as "5- or 6-inch", not "5 or 6-inch".

If a phrase has dashes, and you are listing them as options, then include the dash after each one.

At least, this was that way that I had learned it in HS and College grammar.

corroonb · 08-14-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffonwing

Also, if memory serves, a phrase is correct as "5- or 6-inch", not "5 or 6-inch".

If a phrase has dashes, and you are listing them as options, then include the dash after each one.

At least, this was that way that I had learned it in HS and College grammar.

suspensive or suspended hyphens - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphen#Suspended_hyphens

griffonwing · 08-14-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corroonb

suspensive or suspended hyphens - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphen#Suspended_hyphens

Ahh yes, the correct term was forgotten. Thanks!

Abecedary · 08-14-2009, 04:58 PM

Is there a specific style guide and/or dictionary that you (or the original editor) are following? If yes, then go by those rules. If you are dealing with an older book/document and want to keep the original styling (as you say in your original post), then try to find the oldest copy of the work that you can. Check with your local library system or some local colleges/universities to see what they have available. But otherwise, as was already mentioned, sometimes editors of newer editions will choose to update some of the style decisions to be in line with more modern usage.

Patricia · 08-14-2009, 05:03 PM

It's also try that a lot of the emdashes, endashes and even hyphens go missing in automatic conversions. Whenever I convert a PDF from The Internet Archive I find that all or most of them have vanished and need to be replaced by hand.
I have a suspicion that some publishers may be lazy about employing good copy editors to put them back.

08-14-2009, 11:48 AM	#1
corroonb Addict Posts: 317 Karma: 1232685 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ireland Device: Kindle Voyage, Kobo Aura, Nexus 9	Stylistic changes to a text? I didn't quite know where to put this question or how to title the thread but I'll ask here anyway. Does anyone know if it's possible (or common) for small corrections to be made to an author's work without that author's knowledge or consent? I don't mean spelling or grammar correction but stylistic elements that may be changed in accordance to usage between generations. What I'm particularly interested in here is in the hyphenation of compound words. I've seen some ebooks (not of terrible quality either) where a lot of the hyphens have been stripped from the text as I discovered when checking these compound words in Google Books. I myself am not a fan of hyphenated compound words but I'd like the text to be as accurate as possible. This is probably a formatting error but I'd like to be sure. I've seen that some British writers have works in American English which I always find strange.

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08-14-2009, 11:53 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Certainly when it comes to the "classics", many editors will choose to use "modern" punctuation rather than that which was prevelent at the time the book was written. Eg, until the early 20th century, "today", and "tomorrow" were normally written "to-day" and "to-morrow". Some editors of, say, Dickens, will keep the original spelling (with the hyphens), others will remove the hyphens to conform to modern usage. Is that what you were asking?

08-14-2009, 12:18 PM	#4
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	I think that one can safely regard that kind of thing as an "editorial decision". If you look at Google page scans of the classics, you'll find that if there are half a dozen different editions, no two of them will be identical at the level of punctuation and hyphenation.

08-14-2009, 12:49 PM	#7
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,548 Karma: 19500001 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	I think it's more important to keep consistency across the text. In HarryT's example, choose whether you want "today" or "to-day", and stick to that decision everywhere (I had to do exactly that recently with Galsworthy works). Note, too, that by keeping the punctuation and spelling as in the "original", you are not always being true to the author, but to the original editor or publisher, as those decisions were typically not taken by the authors. But it can be different, Lewis Carroll wrote consistently "ca'n't", "wo'n't", etc., and it was his choice, not the editor's. So... it depends

08-14-2009, 01:17 PM	#8
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	I'm on the camp where I don't think that newer editors should change the text from how it originally was. Too often things get changed too much from the original intent. Yeah, they wrote different, but isn't that part of the point? Getting that historical perspective.

08-14-2009, 02:09 PM	#10
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	I think the convention (rule?) is to use hyphens for adjectives and spaces in other cases. I.e. "He's got a no-holds-barred attitude" but "No holds barred in battle for late-night viewers."

08-14-2009, 02:12 PM	#11
griffonwing Suave Swabby, Savvy? Posts: 1,602 Karma: 520350 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Harrison, ARrrr, USA - southern Ozark mountains Device: Slate Blue PEZ (Astak Pocket Pro), CVSCX-9300 Quad-band watch phone	Also, if memory serves, a phrase is correct as "5- or 6-inch", not "5 or 6-inch". If a phrase has dashes, and you are listing them as options, then include the dash after each one. At least, this was that way that I had learned it in HS and College grammar.

08-14-2009, 04:58 PM	#14
Abecedary Exwyzeeologist Posts: 535 Karma: 3261 Join Date: Jun 2009 Device: :PRS-505::iPod touch:	Is there a specific style guide and/or dictionary that you (or the original editor) are following? If yes, then go by those rules. If you are dealing with an older book/document and want to keep the original styling (as you say in your original post), then try to find the oldest copy of the work that you can. Check with your local library system or some local colleges/universities to see what they have available. But otherwise, as was already mentioned, sometimes editors of newer editions will choose to update some of the style decisions to be in line with more modern usage.

08-14-2009, 05:03 PM	#15
Patricia Reader Posts: 11,504 Karma: 8720163 Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Wales, UK Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505, Asus EEEpc 4G	It's also try that a lot of the emdashes, endashes and even hyphens go missing in automatic conversions. Whenever I convert a PDF from The Internet Archive I find that all or most of them have vanished and need to be replaced by hand. I have a suspicion that some publishers may be lazy about employing good copy editors to put them back.

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