Series and subseries

[maddz]

Before I start fiddling with templates, can anyone confirm how the series sort on a Kobo would work if I include subseries (where there is one) in the series?

I'm thinking something along the lines of

<i>Series - Series Index : Subseries - Subseries Index</i>

Obviously, I'd suppress everything to the right of Series Index if there was no subseries for that particular book.

Will it sort by the series index or by the complete string?

[chaley]

Originally Posted by maddz

Before I start fiddling with templates, can anyone confirm how the series sort on a Kobo would work if I include subseries (where there is one) in the series?

I'm thinking something along the lines of

<i>Series - Series Index : Subseries - Subseries Index</i>

Obviously, I'd suppress everything to the right of Series Index if there was no subseries for that particular book.

Will it sort by the series index or by the complete string?

You are adding this as a collection? Where each collection entry contains 1 book? If so, and if you sort the collection by "Collection name" then it will sort by the entire string. However, that isn't bad as long as you zero-pad the series numbers. An alphabetic sort will be correct

For example, ignoring the subseries and assuming you don't have any series indices larger than 99:

• Series X, index 5
• Series A, index 20
• Series A, index 4
• Series X, index 10

would be (correctly) sorted as

• A - 04
• A - 20
• X - 05
• X - 10

The same process extends to the subseries. The subseries names will sort together, then the subseries index in order.

If you don't zero-pad the series you would get:

• A - 20
• A - 4
• X - 10
• X - 5

[maddz]

No, not as a collection - as a series which is in a collection.

I already have 5+ screens of collections and have absolutely no desire to add to that.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by maddz

No, not as a collection - as a series which is in a collection.

I already have 5+ screens of collections and have absolutely no desire to add to that.

Then I am confused about what you are doing. I don't see how to use a template to set the actual series other than using Metadata Search & replace. AFAIK the Kobo uses the series field in calibre for its name and index. Sub-series aren't supported by calibre and, again AFAIK, by Kobo.

Perhaps someone else has better information.

[maddz]

What I am wanting to do is to include any subseries in the series field when I sideload to my Kobo. At the moment, it only sits in Calibre and doesn't get transferred to my Kobo. I did think of using the Comments field, but that's only visible in book details, and I want it visible in the main book list.

I guess I can use the subtitle field; at the moment I'm using it to display all the collections a book is in so I can see if a particular title in a collection is an anthology or a short piece.

Ideally, as well as series, I want to see subseries and collections without going into book details, which is why I was asking about editing series to include the subseries.

FYI, it is possible to set up subseries and subseries index in Calibre by adding your own columns; it's been part of my Calibre set-up for many years. I'm hoping to leverage that to be included as part of series information on the Kobo.

[Quoth]

If there is a sub-series after say #5 in a series you can have
Super Sleuth [5]
Super Sleuth [5.1]
Super Sleuth [5.2]
Super Sleuth [5.3]

And then use Subtitle or Description Metadata for the name of the sub-series.

Not ideal, but it's what I do.

[chaley]

I looked at the Kobo driver code. There is a way to get partially there using a plugboard.

The driver sets the series name and index to whatever the plugboard produces. You can't have two series numbers so you can't have a subseries index, but it does accept floating point indices so you can encode the subseries into that.

My thought: for a book with series X[10] subseries S[4]. Use the plugboard to set the series to 'X - S', and to set the series index to 10.04 (zero-padding the subseries index). This will sort on the kobo first by the series-subseries name, then by the index.

For example:

• Series X[4]
• Series X[8]
• Series X[5]
• Series X[5] Subseries Q[1]
• Series X[5] Subseries Q[11]
• Series A[20] Subseries B[4]
• Series A[20] Subseries B[21]
• Series A[4]
• Series A[21]

we would get on the Kobo (sorted)

A     [4]
A     [21]
A - B [20.04]
A - B [20.21]
X     [4]
X     [5]
X     [8]
X - Q [5.01]
X - Q [5.11]

[Quoth]

That's a fancier version of what I have. Certainly even "Series Name [201.3]" works on the regular series column & real Kobos without doing anything with plugboards, which I must study!

[maddz]

Ah - that's what I thought might happen - the titles with just a series are sorting prior to the titles with a series and subseries. What I'm looking for is a way to preserve the series sort but also display the subseries if recorded. I do have the main series order with unique numbering (I use the 0.1 notation for interpolated short stories), so that's not a problem.

So instead of:

A [4]
A [21]
A - B [20.04]
A - B [20.21]
X [4]
X [5]
X [8]
X - Q [5.01]
X - Q [5.11]

I'd be wanting to see something along the lines of:

A [4]
A [21] (B [1])
A [22] (B [2])
A [23]
X [4]
X [5]
X [6] (Q [1])
X [7] (Q [2])
X [8]

I have a nasty feeling I'm going to have to resort to using the subtitle field which is annoying because I like being able to see at a glance whether the book is an anthology or a short piece. That's because I have a 55 minute train ride twice a day and I can fit one or 2 short pieces in that time, but I don't necessarily want to read something longer - that's for evenings and weekends. Still, I'm coming up to retirement this year and the daily commute won't be so much of a factor, but I still will need to ration my reading to fit in with lunch breaks and the like.

[chaley]

Originally Posted by maddz

I have a nasty feeling I'm going to have to resort to using the subtitle field which is annoying because I like being able to see at a glance whether the book is an anthology or a short piece. That's because I have a 55 minute train ride twice a day and I can fit one or 2 short pieces in that time, but I don't necessarily want to read something longer - that's for evenings and weekends. Still, I'm coming up to retirement this year and the daily commute won't be so much of a factor, but I still will need to ration my reading to fit in with lunch breaks and the like.

Perhaps use the subtitle template to put both pieces of information into it?

Another possibility: add a subseries to the title (Edit: using a plugboard), as in "Wonderful Thoughts (Meditating [2])"? That way you can easily see it without affecting any sorts.

[maddz]

Well, I'll give it some thought.

Thanks for your help anyway.

[maddz]

For what it's worth, I've edited the subtitle field in Kobo Utilities:

{#subseries:|| {#subseries_index} - } {#myshelves}

That's done the trick, although I would prefer it to be 2 lines, but I suspect 2 lines won't work on the Kobo...

[chaley]

Originally Posted by maddz

That's done the trick, although I would prefer it to be 2 lines, but I suspect 2 lines won't work on the Kobo...

I tried putting a newline into the subtitle. My Libra 2 ignored it.

The (rather silly) subtitle template I used:

program: 'foo' & character('newline') & 'bar'

The Kobo displayed "foo bar" as the subtitle.

[maddz]

Originally Posted by chaley

I tried putting a newline into the subtitle. My Libra 2 ignored it.

The (rather silly) subtitle template I used:

program: 'foo' & character('newline') & 'bar'

The Kobo displayed "foo bar" as the subtitle.

That doesn't surprise me; I rather suspect the firmware only has a single line for that field. Still, I can cope with my edit.

[kjdavies]

Originally Posted by chaley

I looked at the Kobo driver code. There is a way to get partially there using a plugboard.

The driver sets the series name and index to whatever the plugboard produces. You can't have two series numbers so you can't have a subseries index, but it does accept floating point indices so you can encode the subseries into that.

My thought: for a book with series X[10] subseries S[4]. Use the plugboard to set the series to 'X - S', and to set the series index to 10.04 (zero-padding the subseries index). This will sort on the kobo first by the series-subseries name, then by the index.

For example:

• Series X[4]
• Series X[8]
• Series X[5]
• Series X[5] Subseries Q[1]
• Series X[5] Subseries Q[11]
• Series A[20] Subseries B[4]
• Series A[20] Subseries B[21]
• Series A[4]
• Series A[21]

we would get on the Kobo (sorted)

A     [4]
A     [21]
A - B [20.04]
A - B [20.21]
X     [4]
X     [5]
X     [8]
X - Q [5.01]
X - Q [5.11]

I don't know about Kobo, but my Sony would treat those as four distinct series: A, A - B, X, X - Q.

The hackish workaround I found was to go with the base series, with series index as "{series_index}.{subseries_index:02d}", so they sort in the right order... then (depending on when we're talking about and my mood at the time) either abused the author field or prepended to the title.

Each book is displayed with (title, author) on separate lines

Magician: Apprentice
Midkemia [1], Riftwar [1]

Magician: Master
Midkemia [1], Riftwar [2]

Silverthorn
Midkemia [1], Riftwar [3

Darkness at Sethanon
Midkemia [1] Riftwar [4]

Daughter of the Empire
Midkemia [2], Empire [1]

Servant of the Empire
Midkemia [2], Empire [2]

Mistress of the Empire
Midkemia [2], Empire [3]

The books were presented in series order (1.01-1.04, 2.01-2.03) but I could see from the 'author' where they landed and the subseries.

Not very satisfying, I had a weird set of authors (who is 'Empire [2] Midkemia [2]' when they get paid?), but it did the job. More or less.

Putting the series and subseries details in the title was, I suppose, technically less bad, but it made for some very long, at least in my reader, titles that were kind of useless to me in the long run.

Midkemia [1] Riftwar [1] - Magician: Apprentice
Midkemia [1] Riftwar [2] - Magician: Master
Midkemia [1] Riftwar [3] - Silverthorn
Midkemia [1] Riftwar [4] - Darkness at Sethanon
Midkemia [2] Empire [1] - Daughter of the Empire
Midkemia [2] Empire [2] - Servant of the Empire
Midkemia [2] Empire [3] - Mistress of the Empire

A few years ago I did propose a series/subseries enhancement to address this whole problem, as I recall it was closed #wontfix. (Which I can understand, it's a weird problem.)