E-books as NFTs (non-fungible tokens)

datostar · 08-02-2022, 01:40 PM

Interesting piece in today's UK 'Daily Telegraph' newspaper.

Publishers Pearson plan to use blockchain technology to embed trackable codes into its digital school and university textbooks to allow the firm to take a slice of any resale by a student or college. The technology should allow Pearson to demand payment each time its academic guides change hands. They are aware that their print editions are re-sold up to seven times and as they only benefit from the original sale they are somewhat displeased by this. The NFTs will allow digital items to be given a unique code to prevent duplication and track ownership.

If this comes off and works as intended could it be the future for E-books in general?

jhowell · 08-02-2022, 02:14 PM

I am curious to find out more about this. On the face of it, this does not make sense to me.

NFTs allow for proof of ownership and its transfer in a decentralized fashion. That seems to go against the idea of Pearson retaining control of ownership transfers in order to enforce getting their cut of the purchase price. I suspect that they are using the popular buzzwords but actually relying on more proprietary technology.

This certainly raises some questions. How would a market for used digital textbooks work? What would the price difference be between new and used? If they are identical to new books then why would anyone buy new from the publisher? If they are not identical then what makes them different? How would this differ from just allowing returns of no longer needed textbooks to the publisher for a partial refund?

ownedbycats · 08-02-2022, 02:24 PM

Also, NFTs are very bad for the environment.

JSWolf · 08-02-2022, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

I am curious to find out more about this. On the face of it, this does not make sense to me.

NFTs allow for proof of ownership and its transfer in a decentralized fashion. That seems to go against the idea of Pearson retaining control of ownership transfers in order to enforce getting their cut of the purchase price. I suspect that they are using the popular buzzwords but actually relying on more proprietary technology.

This certainly raises some questions. How would a market for used digital textbooks work? What would the price difference be between new and used? If they are identical to new books then why would anyone buy new from the publisher? If they are not identical then what makes them different? How would this differ from just allowing returns of no longer needed textbooks to the publisher for a partial refund?

You can have new edition of a textbook making the old one obsolete.

rkomar · 08-02-2022, 07:05 PM

I don't know much about NFTs. Could they in fact make it so that a digital copy can be sold from one person to another without the original owner keeping a copy? I wonder if this has the opposite effect that the publisher wants, and it ends up opening a used market for digital copies, just like for paper copies?

rantanplan · 08-03-2022, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkomar

I don't know much about NFTs. Could they in fact make it so that a digital copy can be sold from one person to another without the original owner keeping a copy?

No, all of this is bullshit. The NFT is basically a receipt pointing somewhere saying "this is mine", completely independent of if there actually is anything where the NFT is pointing to.

GERGE · 08-03-2022, 03:51 AM

NO! NO! NO!

Check iLok for a working implementation of the same idea, without NFTs.

datostar · 08-03-2022, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkomar

I don't know much about NFTs. Could they in fact make it so that a digital copy can be sold from one person to another without the original owner keeping a copy? I wonder if this has the opposite effect that the publisher wants, and it ends up opening a used market for digital copies, just like for paper copies?

I suspect that's exactly what they are trying to do. If you sell a print copy you don't get to keep it and the publisher doesn't get a share of the proceeds and never will. They seem to want a used market for digital copies to get a share of resale proceeds which could well be a charge to the new owner to allow its use - cough up or you don't get to use it!

Quoth · 08-03-2022, 07:57 AM

NFTs are an evil scam derived from bitcoin and blockchain.
It's using blockchain for proof of ownership, so needs server(s) on the internet. Less durable and environmentally damaging compared to a notarised proof of purchase on acid free paper.

It solves no problems of ownership and creates problems. NFTs and so called Cryptocurrencies should be illegal. Trading or "ownership".

Cryptocurrencies are not currencies, they are speculation vehicles and often pyramid scams. Massively environmentally damaging. Not scaleable. Transaction cost 10,000 more than IBAN. Solves no problems and the claims about fiat currency made to justify crypto-coins only apply to broken governments; arguments by anarchists and criminals.

NFTs are not for reselling digital copies (unless limited edition) as such.

Also with paper or prints of original art in copyright, the publisher can make as many copies as they like. Once the publisher sells the copy, certainly the physical copy can be resold, but the publisher STILL has the copyright. The new owner can resell their copy but not make additional ones.

There are two kinds of NFT:
1) There is only one copy or a limited number of copies (if a digital work), the purchaser can sell on the NFT and the attached work. The purchaser has full copyright on what they bought. They could make copies, but copyright would apply, the purchaser of the copies can't make copies.

2) The NFT creator keeps the copyright. The NFT only applies to the copy the purchaser bought. They can only resell the NFT + copy they bought.

So the NFT is just a bill of sale, an environmentally damaging (because of Blockchain) digital version of a receipt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-fungible_token

cfrizz · 08-03-2022, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

I am curious to find out more about this. On the face of it, this does not make sense to me.

NFTs allow for proof of ownership and its transfer in a decentralized fashion. That seems to go against the idea of Pearson retaining control of ownership transfers in order to enforce getting their cut of the purchase price. I suspect that they are using the popular buzzwords but actually relying on more proprietary technology.

This certainly raises some questions. How would a market for used digital textbooks work? What would the price difference be between new and used? If they are identical to new books then why would anyone buy new from the publisher? If they are not identical then what makes them different? How would this differ from just allowing returns of no longer needed textbooks to the publisher for a partial refund?

They sell new books every semester, the info is the same but they usually rearrange the chapters and other stuff to make finding the info a bit more difficult. If a teacher tells you to turn to chapter two, you will have to go hunting to find where it is in the old book.

astrangerhere · 08-04-2022, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

They sell new books every semester, the info is the same but they usually rearrange the chapters and other stuff to make finding the info a bit more difficult. If a teacher tells you to turn to chapter two, you will have to go hunting to find where it is in the old book.

Yes, and if they did it digitally, they could still scam students without the cost of printing.

Quoth · 08-04-2022, 04:49 PM

Irish school books are often combined "work books" so they can't be reused.

ownedbycats · 08-04-2022, 04:55 PM

Honestly, it seems that textbook companies keep deciding that they're too well-liked and find yet another way to make the customers despise them.

jhowell · 08-04-2022, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Honestly, it seems that textbook companies keep deciding that they're too well-liked and find yet another way to make the customers despise them.

The are probably worried since their whole business model is based on charging exorbitant prices for information that is freely available elsewhere. The real problem is schools that profit from supporting them.

Hopefully the future lies with resources like the Open Textbook Library.

haertig · 08-05-2022, 01:32 AM

Textbooks will (and should) go the way of encyclopedias. The publishers charge ludicrous prices for textbooks. Whether print versions or electronic versions.
And they have been doing this forever. I remember paying hundreds of dollars for some textbooks back in college - and that was in the 70's! I remember paying exorbitant prices for the two encyclopedia sets that our family owns. The publishers made such profits on those books that they could afford to send a personal salesman out to your house to convince you to buy the things. These encyclopedias are still on our shelves. But untouched for decades. Who needs them anymore? You can get the information faster, cheaper, and more up-to-date elsewhere now.

The same thing will happen to textbooks. But the publishers want to squeeze more profit out of them before they finally go the way of the dinosaurs. So it doesn't really surprise me that they are going all out in finding new ways to get paid two, three, or more times for a product that they charged a ridiculous price for in the first place. Picture a dinosaur hanging onto the side of a cliff by their fingernails, trying to escape their fate. That's the textbook publishers.

08-02-2022, 01:40 PM	#1
datostar Enthusiast Posts: 40 Karma: 4158 Join Date: Oct 2012 Device: Kobo Touch	E-books as NFTs (non-fungible tokens) Interesting piece in today's UK 'Daily Telegraph' newspaper. Publishers Pearson plan to use blockchain technology to embed trackable codes into its digital school and university textbooks to allow the firm to take a slice of any resale by a student or college. The technology should allow Pearson to demand payment each time its academic guides change hands. They are aware that their print editions are re-sold up to seven times and as they only benefit from the original sale they are somewhat displeased by this. The NFTs will allow digital items to be given a unique code to prevent duplication and track ownership. If this comes off and works as intended could it be the future for E-books in general?

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08-02-2022, 02:14 PM	#2
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,031 Karma: 91577715 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlottesville, VA Device: Kindles	I am curious to find out more about this. On the face of it, this does not make sense to me. NFTs allow for proof of ownership and its transfer in a decentralized fashion. That seems to go against the idea of Pearson retaining control of ownership transfers in order to enforce getting their cut of the purchase price. I suspect that they are using the popular buzzwords but actually relying on more proprietary technology. This certainly raises some questions. How would a market for used digital textbooks work? What would the price difference be between new and used? If they are identical to new books then why would anyone buy new from the publisher? If they are not identical then what makes them different? How would this differ from just allowing returns of no longer needed textbooks to the publisher for a partial refund?

08-02-2022, 02:24 PM	#3
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 10,678 Karma: 74166147 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	Also, NFTs are very bad for the environment.

08-02-2022, 07:05 PM	#5
rkomar Wizard Posts: 3,042 Karma: 18821071 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Sudbury, ON, Canada Device: PRS-505, PB 902, PRS-T1, PB 623, PB 840, PB 633	I don't know much about NFTs. Could they in fact make it so that a digital copy can be sold from one person to another without the original owner keeping a copy? I wonder if this has the opposite effect that the publisher wants, and it ends up opening a used market for digital copies, just like for paper copies?

08-03-2022, 03:51 AM	#7
GERGE Guru Posts: 733 Karma: 5797160 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Istanbul Device: Kobo Libra	NO! NO! NO! Check iLok for a working implementation of the same idea, without NFTs.

08-03-2022, 07:57 AM	#9
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,694 Karma: 103837201 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	NFTs are an evil scam derived from bitcoin and blockchain. It's using blockchain for proof of ownership, so needs server(s) on the internet. Less durable and environmentally damaging compared to a notarised proof of purchase on acid free paper. It solves no problems of ownership and creates problems. NFTs and so called Cryptocurrencies should be illegal. Trading or "ownership". Cryptocurrencies are not currencies, they are speculation vehicles and often pyramid scams. Massively environmentally damaging. Not scaleable. Transaction cost 10,000 more than IBAN. Solves no problems and the claims about fiat currency made to justify crypto-coins only apply to broken governments; arguments by anarchists and criminals. NFTs are not for reselling digital copies (unless limited edition) as such. Also with paper or prints of original art in copyright, the publisher can make as many copies as they like. Once the publisher sells the copy, certainly the physical copy can be resold, but the publisher STILL has the copyright. The new owner can resell their copy but not make additional ones. There are two kinds of NFT: 1) There is only one copy or a limited number of copies (if a digital work), the purchaser can sell on the NFT and the attached work. The purchaser has full copyright on what they bought. They could make copies, but copyright would apply, the purchaser of the copies can't make copies. 2) The NFT creator keeps the copyright. The NFT only applies to the copy the purchaser bought. They can only resell the NFT + copy they bought. So the NFT is just a bill of sale, an environmentally damaging (because of Blockchain) digital version of a receipt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-fungible_token

08-04-2022, 04:49 PM	#12
Quoth Still reading Posts: 13,694 Karma: 103837201 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	Irish school books are often combined "work books" so they can't be reused.

08-04-2022, 04:55 PM	#13
ownedbycats Custom User Title Posts: 10,678 Karma: 74166147 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Canada Device: Kobo Libra H2O, formerly Aura HD	Honestly, it seems that textbook companies keep deciding that they're too well-liked and find yet another way to make the customers despise them.

08-05-2022, 01:32 AM	#15
haertig Wizard Posts: 1,889 Karma: 31522252 Join Date: Sep 2017 Device: PW3, Fire HD8 Gen7, Moto G7, Sansa Clip v2, Ruizu X26	Textbooks will (and should) go the way of encyclopedias. The publishers charge ludicrous prices for textbooks. Whether print versions or electronic versions. And they have been doing this forever. I remember paying hundreds of dollars for some textbooks back in college - and that was in the 70's! I remember paying exorbitant prices for the two encyclopedia sets that our family owns. The publishers made such profits on those books that they could afford to send a personal salesman out to your house to convince you to buy the things. These encyclopedias are still on our shelves. But untouched for decades. Who needs them anymore? You can get the information faster, cheaper, and more up-to-date elsewhere now. The same thing will happen to textbooks. But the publishers want to squeeze more profit out of them before they finally go the way of the dinosaurs. So it doesn't really surprise me that they are going all out in finding new ways to get paid two, three, or more times for a product that they charged a ridiculous price for in the first place. Picture a dinosaur hanging onto the side of a cliff by their fingernails, trying to escape their fate. That's the textbook publishers.

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