Is the Mars screen any good?

[kandwo]

I currently own a Nova 3, which I am quite happy with, but for one thing: the screen. Having a flush glass screen makes the text ever so slightly unfocused/blurry, and I'm considering selling the device. It works better with higher contrast and backlight, but since I don't want to use the latter it's not a solution for me.

Would the Likebook Mars be a good substitute? How is the screen compared to Onyx Boox flush glass screens? Or compared to a Kindle Paperwhite 3/basic kindle? (I'm aware that more recent Kindles also have flush screens and, therefore, worse contrast/more blurry text.)

Is there anything else I as an Onyx user should consider if opting for a Likebook device?

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by kandwo

I currently own a Nova 3, which I am quite happy with, but for one thing: the screen. Having a flush glass screen makes the text ever so slightly unfocused/blurry, and I'm considering selling the device. It works better with higher contrast and backlight, but since I don't want to use the latter it's not a solution for me.

The flush has no effect, but each layer reduces the contrast and sharpness somewhat - including the Wacom layer.
In addition, backlighting is impossible with EInk because the EInk layer is opaque - it is frontlight. The light shines through a layer of light guide from above onto the EInk display and you can see what is reflected.

[kandwo]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

The flush has no effect, but each layer reduces the contrast and sharpness somewhat - including the Wacom layer.
In addition, backlighting is impossible with EInk because the EInk layer is opaque - it is frontlight. The light shines through a layer of light guide from above onto the EInk display and you can see what is reflected.

I'm aware of the layers reducing the visibility of the e-ink layers. However, the wacom layer is underneath the e-ink (according to the description on Onyx's site) and thus shouldn't have an effect on screen clarity. Therefore, it should have the same layers as my Hisense A5 Pro, which is a capacitative touch layer + glass screen. The Hisense looks sharp enough, though. The difference I've been able to spot is that the shadows around the screen edges are deeper on the Nova 3 compared to the Hisense.

Neither of the above looks as good as my Paperwhite 3. The difference is that the Kindle has a sunken screen with no glass layer.

I'm not the only one to notice that flush screens seem to make the text less clear: https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/20...ers-overrated/

On the other hand, in comparison reviews between the Paperwhite 3 and Voyage, many seem to prefer the latter and it has a flush screen: https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/20...-review-video/

Whereas the Paperwhite 3 is held in higher regard than Paperwhite 4 when it comes to screen clarity.

Obviously, the flush screen in and of itself doesn't lower the clarity (at least not to problematic levels). My guess is that both the material used and the distance to the actual e-ink layer has a significant impact on the end result.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by kandwo

Obviously, the flush screen in and of itself doesn't lower the clarity (at least not to problematic levels). My guess is that both the material used and the distance to the actual e-ink layer has a significant impact on the end result.

The distance to the surface depends on the thickness of the individual layers, with the uniformity of the illumination again depending on the thickness of the light guide.
This in turn reduces the contrast and the sharpness of the image.
This layer must also be protected, because every damage to the surface is clearly (luminous) visible - glass!
It's always a compromise.

[Pajamaman]

I have a Nova (non-flush) and a Nova Pro (flush). I have examined closely and I can see absolutely zero difference between the two screens. I expected to see a difference, and did not. So no, IME the flush makes no difference.

The Onyx screens have a lower contrast than a Kindle. I presume it's because Amazon have more resources to get the maximum contrast. The same for Kobo. I have a Nook GL3 and the contrast is better than the Onyx. From what I read, the PW3 is clearer than the PW4 because bizarrely the higher screen resolution makes the text look thin.

I do tend to put the light on on the Onyx to bump up the contrast. It's fine, and I'm fussy.

[Incanus]

With no technical input whatosever I can only say that the Mars screen is crisp and sharp: I do see the ocassional photo, diagram or drawing but I use it mostly for text reading, and I'm quite satisfied so far.

Kind regards,

[Quoth]

In order of sharpness (all except last are quoted as 300 dpi):
Mars 7.8"
Kobo Libra 7"
Kindle PW3 6"
Kindle PW4 6"
Original Aura HD H2O 6.8", it's lower resolution, but sharp because there are less layers.

In order of brightness/contrast, with a reading lamp:
Original Aura HD H2O, it's lower resolution, but has IR touch, less layers than capacitive.
Kobo Libra, Mars and Kindle PW3 are about the same.
PW4 is duller.

I'm wondering are the 7.8" eink really 300 dpi, or 307 dpi?

The DXG 9.7", KK3 6", and Sony PRS-350 5" are all a similar greyness, OK with a good lamp but the kindles are poorer than all above for sharpness as they are low resolution. I think the PRS-350 has the same number of pixels as KK3 (800 x 600), so looks sharper. You really don't want the older eink like in the KK2 or DX.

I never use the front lights unless out somewhere badly lit. I'd use the same lighting as for a 40 year old paperback.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I'm wondering are the 7.8" eink really 300 dpi, or 307 dpi?

Screen Likebook Mars, 7.8 inch: 1404 * 1872

3^2+4^2=5^2 (Pythagoras)

7.8 / 5 * 3 * 300 = 1404
7.8 / 5 * 4 * 300 = 1872

[Quoth]

Ah, but is it actually exactly 7.8"? Though my ruler suggests it is.

Anyway, it's very sharp and clear. Text in koreader is fine.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Ah, but is it actually exactly 7.8"? Though my ruler suggests it is.

VB3300-GHA

[kandwo]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I have a Nova (non-flush) and a Nova Pro (flush). I have examined closely and I can see absolutely zero difference between the two screens. I expected to see a difference, and did not. So no, IME the flush makes no difference.

The Onyx screens have a lower contrast than a Kindle. I presume it's because Amazon have more resources to get the maximum contrast. The same for Kobo. I have a Nook GL3 and the contrast is better than the Onyx. From what I read, the PW3 is clearer than the PW4 because bizarrely the higher screen resolution makes the text look thin.

I do tend to put the light on on the Onyx to bump up the contrast. It's fine, and I'm fussy.

Interesting! Thank you for the analysis, it's very helpful! This makes screen quality somewhat more of a mystery to me. The voyage is said to be better than the Kindle PW3, whereas both the PW4 and later Oasis models are supposedly worse. It's hard to guess why that is..

What do you mean by "the higher resolution" of PW4? Aren't both 300PPI? Aren't they using the same screen?

Originally Posted by Quoth

In order of sharpness (all except last are quoted as 300 dpi):
Mars 7.8"
Kobo Libra 7"
Kindle PW3 6"
Kindle PW4 6"
Original Aura HD H2O 6.8", it's lower resolution, but sharp because there are less layers.

In order of brightness/contrast, with a reading lamp:
Original Aura HD H2O, it's lower resolution, but has IR touch, less layers than capacitive.
Kobo Libra, Mars and Kindle PW3 are about the same.
PW4 is duller.

I'm wondering are the 7.8" eink really 300 dpi, or 307 dpi?

The DXG 9.7", KK3 6", and Sony PRS-350 5" are all a similar greyness, OK with a good lamp but the kindles are poorer than all above for sharpness as they are low resolution. I think the PRS-350 has the same number of pixels as KK3 (800 x 600), so looks sharper. You really don't want the older eink like in the KK2 or DX.

I never use the front lights unless out somewhere badly lit. I'd use the same lighting as for a 40 year old paperback.

I actually have a practically unusable Kindle 2 (the battery is shot). I never had a problem reading on it. The background is grayer than modern e-ink and the resolution is very low, but the text still looks much clearer than on modern devices. I guess it's the lack of layers that does it.

I'd happily take a lack of touch functionality if that would improve the screen quality significantly. Or maybe choose IR touch instead. Sadly, they seem to be out of favour nowadays..

This is weird to me. For me the screen is the single most important thing on an e-reader, yet many seem to almost pay it no attention and instead focus on functionality. Maybe others aren't so picky? For me, it's all about the screen and dictionary. Mobility and an in-built dictionary are the only things an e-reader does better than a paper book in my view; and for that I wouldn't even need a touch screen (the only things the Kindle 2 lacked for me was higher resolution and wider language support (including dictionaries)).

[Quoth]

The PW4 and PW3 are the same resolution. But I have compared them side by side in daylight and decent room lighting. The PW3 is both a little sharper and not so grey. I suspect it's the raised front on the PW4 so as to not have the sunken display with raised bezel. The Libra is similar grey and sharpness to the PW3 and the slightly lower resolution original H2O isn't as good at small fonts, but has the closest to white as there is no capacitive touch screen. The Mars is just as good nearly white grey as the PW3 and Libra, thus better than a PW4. It's technically the same resolution and type of eink, so I don't know why it seems a little sharper than the PW3 and Libra.
The Libra is my preferred ereader for proofing and annotation prior to a fresh edit in LO Writer. Annotations to Kobo Utilities in Calibre and copy/paste to KATE text editor window beside the main source LO Writer.

But I now read everything else, and all PDFs that work, on the Mars. I have Borrowbox on it too which saves a lot of messing.

I can't get Mars to MTP talk to Calibre (4.23), though my Android 10" tablet does after I unmount it from desktop. I have to tell Calibre to use a folder mode. I get an error if I try to remount the Mars via GUI without re-plugging USB, though that works with the Lenovo 10" tablet (Linux Mint 18.3). I'll try it on Mint 20.0 and Calibre 5.11 on the backup laptop. I have to upgrade Linux Mint 18.3 to 19.3 or 20.x by April.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by kandwo

This is weird to me. For me the screen is the single most important thing on an e-reader, yet many seem to almost pay it no attention and instead focus on functionality.

Since I can see the differences (sharpness, contrast, brightness) on the screen with the same resolution and technology, only if I examine them side by side, but recognize the differences in functionality independently of one another, only the latter is important for me.
Of course, the quality of the lighting is excluded here - big differences can also be seen independently.
With e.g. ~ 1400 * 1000 equally illuminated devices, only ergonomics and features are important to me

[kandwo]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Since I can see the differences (sharpness, contrast, brightness) on the screen with the same resolution and technology, only if I examine them side by side, but recognize the differences in functionality independently of one another, only the latter is important for me.
Of course, the quality of the lighting is excluded here - big differences can also be seen independently.
With e.g. ~ 1400 * 1000 equally illuminated devices, only ergonomics and features are important to me

I understand that position. I, on the other hand, reacted to the blurriness at first without comparing it to my other devices. In fact, I thought there was something wrong with my eyes at first, but when comparing to my other screens I could see that there was a difference. I've managed to mostly solve it by increasing the contrast, applying a full screen refresh on every page turn and keeping the screen clean by using the wacom pen (which is highly annoying, but the screen is a finger print magnet and a couple of day's use will make the text blurry due to the prints left on the screen forming an additional layer...).

It will probably have to make do for now. It seems impossible to find a device that would fit my requirements fully. Reading in other threads here, it seems many people are having problems with the Mars screen turning yellow around the edges after a year or so of use. They seem to have rather poor quality control.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by kandwo

Reading in other threads here, it seems many people are having problems with the Mars screen turning yellow around the edges after a year or so of use. They seem to have rather poor quality control.

As the 7.8 inch standard EInk module is installed in the Likebook Mars, this discoloration can only occur from the outside - maybe through outgassing of the plastic housing?