Ideas for Discussion/Consideration

[Thasaidon]

I understand that maintaining and developing Sigil is KevinH's and DiapDealer's hobby and that they receive no pay for their work. I have the greatest respect for their taking Sigil on and the work they have done. If it was not for them Sigil may well be slowly dyiing if not dead.

I love Sigil and use it daily but like all the programs people use there are things that they would like to change so that it would be "perfect for them".

I am therefore not asking for these changes but throwing out ideas for changes to Sigil in the hopes they may fit in with their ideas for developing Sigil in the future.

1. I am definitely not suggesting "Book View" be brought back but I liked having an icon to switch between "Code" and "Book" views. When getting rid of Book view was being intensively discussed. I repeatedly suggested that the old Book view icon be used to invoke Preview.

I understand Kevin's argument that the toolhars are overcrowded as it is. A Suggestion Have an option to either allow the Open External Editor" icon to either start and external editor OR do the equivalent of a F10 and bring up the Preview window. Alternatively an option to assign F10 to a plugin icon should work equally well.

2. Unless I am doing something wrong I cannot get Code View and Preview to dock like the "TOC" and "Book Browser" widows can, i.e. they will not overlap and show the window name on tabs. The best I can do is to have Preview as a third column. I would liked to be able to switch back and forth between the largest Code View window possible to an equally large Preview window either by icon or tab.

I will repeat I am definitely not suggesting "Book View" be brought back

While I am a long time Sigil user I am still finding new features and ways to use it my advantage so if I have missed some things that would give me the above please enlighten me.

[KevinH]

Is all of this about screen realestate limitations?

Why would hiding Preview behind a "tab" be useful otherwise?

FWIW, a "Preview" does not exist for every CodeView tab. When a CodeView Tab is clicked on and brought to the front, the single Preview window is loaded. Each Qt WebEngine window like Preview takes up a large amount of memory and requires many many threads (think how hungry for resources a Chrome browser is for each open tab). So a one to one between CV tabs and Preview can not be done. That is why PageEdit maps only the current page into a "Preview" and not a separate Preview tab for each xhtml chapter.

Also Clicking in Preview will sync CodeView and visa versa so they need to both be seeable at the same time to achieve that. And that can be very very useful.

So hiding one behind the other would never work for me or most users.

If the only benefit is screen size, have you thought about detaching Preview and placing it on a second monitor? Or if a second monitor does not exist, use a second virtual desktop where a single key is used to swap virtual desktops.

There are os level virtual desktops on Linux and Macs and I am sure Windows can most likely do something similar.

So please explain the benefit of hiding Preview if it is not screen realestate?

[Ashjuk]

As I have only recently started to use Sigil I can not comment on whether the removal of Book View was a good or bad thing - I am learning to use the program as it is now.

I echo your thanks to both KevinH and DiapDealer, without their efforts I presume we would not have Sigil in the form it is today.

I am trying to think of anything to suggest that would make my editing work easier, but as a 'newbie' I still have not discovered all of its tools, so I will probably only end up suggesting something that's already there.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Thasaidon

2. Unless I am doing something wrong I cannot get Code View and Preview to dock like the "TOC" and "Book Browser" widows can, i.e. they will not overlap and show the window name on tabs. The best I can do is to have Preview as a third column. I would liked to be able to switch back and forth between the largest Code View window possible to an equally large Preview window either by icon or tab.

Code View is the central application widget. As such it cannot be hidden, docked or relocated or tabbed with another widget. It is the center of the Sigil universe.

But Preview is certainly floatable/dockable/stackable/tab-able. It's a dock widget that is similar in every way to the Book View, ToC, Validation Results, and Clips dock widgets. Stack it, tab it, float it, and move it around. But it won't be combined with the central widget (Code View), because the central widget is not (can't be) a docking widget.

I have Preview tabbed with other dockwidgets all the time. Note the highlighted tabs (and their names) in the lower right area of the Sigil Window:



Now if you're talking about Preview being able to be tabbed with the rest of the epub's resource tabs in the central widget (Code View), then that's just not possible. You may not think you're asking for Book View to brought back, but if that's the functionality you desire, then that's exactly what you're asking for without realizing it. Can't/won't be done.

[Thasaidon]

Thanks for the answer and the explanation DiapDealer.

If it is not possible to do it, it is not possible to do it and you also give other reasons why it would not be a good idea

My reason behind raising the idea was I personally liked how I was able to bring things up in earlier versions of Sigil.

I have been playing with docking the preview window and found a way of getting something close to what I was suggesting. I do not play with docking the windows very much so did not find this configuration in the past

Your suggestion of

use a second virtual desktop where a single key is used to swap virtual desktops.

is a good one and and I would not thought of it myself. I now have something to play with and try out in the future so all in all my posting has proved very useful to me and I have learnt things.

I would still like to be able to toggle the Preview window on and off via an icon on the toolbar though.

In the early 1990s I was a hotkey wizard on Wordperfect 4.0 when I worked in IT. Now I am so mousified I have to stop and think to use them.

[KevinH]

You can use Sigil View menu to show and hide a detached Preview if that would help. Perhaps assign a key sequence to do what you want.

[Thasaidon]

Hi KevinH

Just to let you know I have managed to find a couple of work arounds so that I have virtually got what I was suggesting.

I had accidentally found the Preview Window went MUCH wider than I had ever taken it before and if it was docked at the left side it was unlikely I would accidentally move it. This was much of what I wanted.

I then thought about toggling the Preview Window on and off as am no longer the hotkey king I once was in the mid 1990s. My hand rarely leaves my mouse now, and had a brainwave. I have a couple of spare buttons on my new mouse so I had a look in MajorGeeks and found a small utility that allowed me to assign the F10 key to one of the unused buttons. I can now flip between a very large Preview Window and Codeview without taking my hand off the mouse. (see attached screenshots).

I probably would not come up with this solution without the discussion in this thread.

I have made this post so that others realize that sometimes rather than asking for Sigil to be changed that a bit of ingenuity, checking what Sigil will do and a bit of third party freeware they may be able arrange things so they can work as they wish.

It would be nice if the old BookView icon was added to a toolbar. and used to bring up the Preview Window I would then ditch the third party utility and use the icon but that is inconsequential now.

One final question - is it possible to lock the dockings, window sizes etc. I have fat fingers and am heavy handed and sometimes accidentally move, close or resize windows.

DiapDealer

You may not think you're asking for Book View to brought back, but if that's the functionality you desire, then that's exactly what you're asking for without realizing it. Can't/won't be done.

No I was not asking for Book View to brought back. From what I remember of the discussions the people who wanted to keep book view "because they wanted to edit files in Book view," I have evolved far past that. The solution I evolved above gives me what I want without Book view or any changes to Sigil necessary.

[KevinH]

Window sizes and positions should be saved when Sigil exits. They should be restored on opening Sigil again. As far as I know, there is no way for a user to lock Window to prevent resizing unless that is on OS or window manager level feature.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Thasaidon

DiapDealer

No I was not asking for Book View to brought back.

Not knowing exactly what you were trying to achieve, I did put forth two propositions. Only one of which suggested that, from a technical/programmatical standpoint, there was little difference between that and asking for Book View back. Now that I understand what you were trying to accomplish, I'm happy that it was my former supposition rather than the latter.

Originally Posted by Thasaidon

From what I remember of the discussions the people who wanted to keep book view "because they wanted to edit files in Book view," I have evolved far past that. The solution I evolved above gives me what I want without Book view or any changes to Sigil necessary.

I never once thought (or hinted) that your suggestions were made based on a desire to to be able to edit in Book view, or that you were overtly asking for Book View to brought back at all. My point (as I already alluded to above) was that IF what you were asking for was the ability to have Preview tabbed within Code View's various epub resource tabs, then there was no difference-programmatically--between that and asking for Book View to be brought back. Much of the same work would be involved.

I'm quite giddy that you've found a way to almost entirely hide the Code View widget behind a giant Preview widget, and that you can essentially toggle between Code View/Preview with the click of a mouse. I don't know how I ever made the mistake of thinking you were looking to revert to some of the previous functionality provided by the old Code View/Book View central widget toggling methodology.

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Window sizes and positions should be saved when Sigil exits. They should be restored on opening Sigil again. As far as I know, there is no way for a user to lock Window to prevent resizing unless that is on OS or window manager level feature.

Thanks for the info. It is more a case of when I am moving the mouse and acciddentaly picking up/moving a widget and as I say I have fat fingers and am not a touch typist. Not a huge problem it is my fault but it annoys me when it happens.

I will search the freeware sites to see if there is an appropriate utility.

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I never once thought (or hinted) that your suggestions were made based on a desire to to be able to edit in Book view, or that you were overtly asking for Book View to brought back at all. My point (as I already alluded to above) was that IF what you were asking for was the ability to have Preview tabbed within Code View's various epub resource tabs, then there was no difference-programmatically--between that and asking for Book View to be brought back. Much of the same work would be involved.

I'm quite giddy that you've found a way to almost entirely hide the Code View widget behind a giant Preview widget, and that you can essentially toggle between Code View/Preview with the click of a mouse. I don't know how I ever made the mistake of thinking you were looking to revert to some of the previous functionality provided by the old Code View/Book View central widget toggling methodology.

I understand. No biggee.

It is a problem caused by communicating by posting short pieces of text. I have seen many, many, many misunderstandings or people taking something innocuous the wrong way in bulletin boards/ usenet/ forums over the years. Such is life.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Thasaidon

Thanks for the info. It is more a case of when I am moving the mouse and acciddentaly picking up/moving a widget and as I say I have fat fingers and am not a touch typist. Not a huge problem it is my fault but it annoys me when it happens.

I will search the freeware sites to see if there is an appropriate utility.

If you find one for Windows please let us know.

I only have a couple of programs that have the option of explicitly saving a 'state' and always starting in that 'state'. To some degree most programs start in the messy state I left them - particularly window sizes and placement.

BR

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

If you find one for Windows please let us know.

I only have a couple of programs that have the option of explicitly saving a 'state' and always starting in that 'state'. To some degree most programs start in the messy state I left them - particularly window sizes and placement.

BR

Will do,

[Thasaidon]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

If you find one for Windows please let us know.

I only have a couple of programs that have the option of explicitly saving a 'state' and always starting in that 'state'. To some degree most programs start in the messy state I left them - particularly window sizes and placement.

BR

My understanding is you want programs to always open with the same settings and some update the settings according to what they are when you close the program.

If that is the case give Autosizer a look,

www.southbaypc.com/AutoSizer/

N,B I am only going on its description, I have not tried it.

[BetterRed]

Main window size is less of problem for me, its things like your Preview window size trick that I don't like being reinstated.

My 2 pane File Manager has a very simple approach to the issue. In its main preference settings there's a Save program state on exit check box, if that's set then next time you start it it'll be in whatever state it was in when last exited - I have that unset.

There's also a Save settings now menu option, on first use it overwrites the default settings. After configuring its layout etc I used that option. The net result is that it always starts in the saved state - no matter what shambles it was in when I last exited.

BR