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Old 05-02-2018, 06:18 AM   #1
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Office Automation - Text editing / Word processing

Happily, I just restarted the activities related to text editing sive word processing.

Before going into details: using old Kingsoft's "Writer" software on the Max2 is immensely fantastic.
Most of the problems I met in the past are gone, and effortlessly from the user side - the firmware seems well optimized.

The interest is towards featureful software that allows efficient editing of rich text in a "what you see is what you get" manner, and supports what has been basic for the past three decades on desktop software (font faces, sizes, weigh and variants, margins, indentations, justification etc.).
The tablet must be of course coupled with a hardware keyboard, normally BlueTooth.

I have done sessions using the alternative way of using typical desktop Office Automation software through the HDMI way, and there are pros and cons: the pros being the full-featured environment (two pages per screen in landscape, all of the commands, the navigation options etc.), the cons being the non-paradigmatic system (so e.g. I could not find a way to center the pages in the screen) and limitations in the current implementation (the non 1:1 resolution makes the text slightly blurry; sustained battery drain and on many devices etc.).

I have again tried a few alternatives in the Android realm - current WPS, Softmaker's TextMaker, Mobisystems's suite, AndrOpen Office, LibreOfficeViewer [-AndExperimentalEditor]. Others, I directly discarded: Polaris, GoogleDocs, Microsoft - solutions that for necessity or their own to-be-kept-personal decision demand an Internet connection to work (of course, I work offline).

EDIT: added video:


Last edited by mdp; 05-06-2018 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Added video
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:35 AM   #2
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About Kingsoft Office, I need again to mention that it was developed until 2014, and then it was replaced by WPS Office. They are not the same, and I still prefer Kingsoft Office, which appears more well thought in functionality than its successor.
To find the old version has become, for some reason, very difficult. A repository is still
https://www.apk4fun.com/history/6937/
Kingsoft Office is any version of "cn.wps.moffice_eng" up to version 5.x ; from version 6 on (up to current 10.x) it is WPS Office.
Kingsoft's website had a link to the old product, but at some point they replaced the linked file with WPS Office - which is a very different thing.

I have used this product so much, and I still will. It still seems better than all competing products.

The only real inconvenience I meet with it is the lack of the [CTRL]+[Arrow] shortcut to jump from word to word (a wanted feature when selecting text with [CTRL]+[Shift]+[Arrow] ).
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Old 05-02-2018, 12:44 PM   #3
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A little information about the software I tried.

Kingsoft Office: the best, the one I use (version 5.7 or 5.12). Stopped development in 2014.
On the Max2, the cursor is static, which is nice. Battery consumption is very low: at pondering pace, I consumed about 5% of battery per hour. I miss, as stated, the ability to select text faster (to select word by word instead of just char by char).

WPS Office: the successor of Kingsoft. Faults, in the versions I used: * it does not have a zoom control anymore, so all you have is "pinch to zoom" (too bad not everyone has a multi-touch screen, see the MaxCarta); * again you cannot make the cursor (and the selection) jump by word; the "scroll" mode ('Web view' in Kingsoft) makes the text grey instead of black, which is terrible on EPD. People say it's full of ads.

Softmaker's TextMaker Free: the "shareware" version, abandoned in 2012, and still very good. It has the problem of not updating (invalidating?) the screen upon selection - you select text and nothing happens on the screen, you have to use indirect tricks to verify that it has done it.
Softmaker has turned into developing a more featureful product, "SoftMaker Office HD for Android". I tried to use it in the past, but at the time it required an activation, which I could not provide.

Mobisystems's OfficeSuite Free: I could make it work yesterday, and today already crashes at launch. I cannot remember the glitches (/more/ glitches?).

AndrOpen Office: very, very promising. But it flashes on the EPD screen - there is some "unlinear process" behind it that makes it work oddly, and this is a consequence (I guess its platform is like the "create an X windows system on Android and connect to it through a local remote desktop trick" we have tried in past threads). Otherwise, it would easily be heaven.

LibreOfficeViewer: the team has started porting LibreOffice to Android (almost) natively, but there is still a long road ahead. The option for editing is there, but already page rendering takes a very long time.

As for the other three mentioned in the previous post: they require an Internet connection, which is madness: I strictly intend to be able to work anywhere, anytime. Not to mention the privacy of documents.

Last edited by mdp; 05-02-2018 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:49 PM   #4
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I recommend that you try 'jotterpad' for typing on your max 2

Last edited by supertoth; 05-02-2018 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supertoth View Post
I recommend that you try 'jotterpad' for typing on your max 2
Yes the idea is typing, but according to preliminary checks, jotterpad does not seem to qualify as a "word processor". The screenshots I find around do not seem to show justification, paragraph spacing, line spacing, indentation... I am not even sure it is a "what you see is what you get" editor - it mentions markdown...

My memory is not perfect, but I think I had those formatting features 25 years ago on Wordworth, on a "very powerful" Amiga. Surely I had all of them 20 years ago. Benchmarks are unavailable, but we are talking about machines supposedly thousands of times less powerful. Proposing less today is absurd.

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Old 05-03-2018, 02:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
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Yes the idea is typing, but according to preliminary checks, jotterpad does not seem to qualify as a "word processor". The screenshots I find around do not seem to show justification, paragraph spacing, line spacing, indentation... I am not even sure it is a "what you see is what you get" editor - it mentions markdown...

My memory is not perfect, but I think I had those formatting features 25 years ago on Wordworth, on a "very powerful" Amiga. Surely I had all of them 20 years ago. Benchmarks are unavailable, but we are talking about machines supposedly thousands of times less powerful. Proposing less today is absurd.
I would type everything in jotterpad and then, using Styles, format the text in Word
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:41 AM   #7
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I would type everything in jotterpad and then, using Styles, format the text in Word
And why not using directly a word processor.
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Old 05-03-2018, 10:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
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And why not using directly a word processor.
Faster response times, less clutter and I like separating the writing process from the editing one. Editing in a proper computer would be much faster that an eink device.
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Old 05-03-2018, 04:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Faster response times, less clutter and I like separating the writing process from the editing one. Editing in a proper computer would be much faster that an eink device.
Reasonably fast Office Automation on Android is totally achievable. Again: it was on machines of over 20 years ago. The Max2 has good specifications, a comparable in performance to the low end of Intel's current offer and (very) roughly equivalent to, for example, earlier Macbook Air (high end Core 2 Duo of not ten years ago). I had "usable" to good results on much less.

Clutter: again my point: but for the menu bar, on the screen I have only text, and properly formatted (while a matrix-like, terminal-like output would be that clot that deprives from useful information). Anyway, immersion mode is granted on desktop OA (at least, on the desktop StarOffice successors - I do not use the rest), just like it should and is on mobile, that's not a problem.

And look, you only live once to impose yourself the purposeless exposure to inelegant layouts. You are what you eat.
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdp View Post
Reasonably fast Office Automation on Android is totally achievable. Again: it was on machines of over 20 years ago. The Max2 has good specifications, a comparable in performance to the low end of Intel's current offer and (very) roughly equivalent to, for example, earlier Macbook Air (high end Core 2 Duo of not ten years ago). I had "usable" to good results on much less.

Clutter: again my point: but for the menu bar, on the screen I have only text, and properly formatted (while a matrix-like, terminal-like output would be that clot that deprives from useful information). Anyway, immersion mode is granted on desktop OA (at least, on the desktop StarOffice successors - I do not use the rest), just like it should and is on mobile, that's not a problem.

And look, you only live once to impose yourself the purposeless exposure to inelegant layouts. You are what you eat.
If your porpuse it's using just one device, the Max2, for word processing-editing I think it's a good option with some compromises. Screen refresh on the Max 2 will become tedious in a long document with hundreds of edits, it just cannot be compare with a LCD screen. It doesn't matter that much the specifications on the Max2, the disadvantage it's inherent to the screen technology. Not having colour can also be problematic for some writing eg programming, color coded scripts.
For scientific papers I wonder if Android is a good choice when you have to deal with Latex for Mathematical formulas.
For fiction writing what I would do is prepare in a Windows machine (Mac too) a Word document with the formatting of every style I would need; paragraph spacing, fonts, quote style, headings, etc... I will save that document in Google Drive and start writing on it with Word for Android on the Max2; that way the formatting it's done for you and you only have to care about the content.
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supertoth View Post
Screen refresh on the Max 2 will become tedious in a long document with hundreds of edits, it just cannot be compare with a LCD screen. It doesn't matter that much the specifications on the Max2, the disadvantage it's inherent to the screen technology.
Not having colour can also be problematic for some writing eg programming, color coded scripts
I have done many thousands of edits on EPD through Kingsoft, not just hundreds: most happily.
The EPD refresh is not nice to the eyes, but you can simply not look at it: when I type I think of the concept and look later, I do not fixate direcly on the updating strings. It's a knack that comes very natural. I fixate the screen while reading, not while writing.
An LCD screen is, as written, not comparable: it is improper (fights against environmental light) and impractical (it won't work properly) to use it under natural light. The whole idea is: Office Automation under natural lighting. Otherwise, why would I be using EPD? If you want the perks of LCD, find a room; if you want light, you can use EPD.
The screen technology is either an advantage to you, or use something different. The EPD screen technology allows me to work anywhere, so here it's a godsent, not a disadvantage.
The mention of the hardware specifications was only relevant to stating that full Office Automation software is supposed to be able to work well - fast enough - on devices like the Max2 and the note, and it does, without the need to resort to simpler software, unable to fully render page content. It's got nothing to do with the screen.
I have met text which was originally in colour, and there is little problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supertoth View Post
pocument with ... every style I would need; paragraph spacing, fonts, quote style, headings, etc... I will save that document in Google Drive and start writing on it with Word for Android on the Max2; that way the formatting it's done for you and you only have to care about the content.
Yes, I also prepare the document before editing it on EPD. I operate on full documents, already written and formatted: I work on the original text. I do not format the document on the Max2, also because Kingsoft does not have good Style (in the technical sense) management. For people who intend to produce documents from scratch, Kingsoft can anyway apply Styles.
You do not need any Internet normally - you do if you use Google and MS-Word.
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdp View Post
I have done many thousands of edits on EPD through Kingsoft, not just hundreds: most happily.
The EPD refresh is not nice to the eyes, but you can simply not look at it: when I type I think of the concept and look later, I do not fixate direcly on the updating strings. It's a knack that comes very natural. I fixate the screen while reading, not while writing.
An LCD screen is, as written, not comparable: it is improper (fights against environmental light) and impractical (it won't work properly) to use it under natural light. The whole idea is: Office Automation under natural lighting. Otherwise, why would I be using EPD? If you want the perks of LCD, find a room; if you want light, you can use EPD.
The screen technology is either an advantage to you, or use something different. The EPD screen technology allows me to work anywhere, so here it's a godsent, not a disadvantage.
The mention of the hardware specifications was only relevant to stating that full Office Automation software is supposed to be able to work well - fast enough - on devices like the Max2 and the note, and it does, without the need to resort to simpler software, unable to fully render page content. It's got nothing to do with the screen.
I have met text which was originally in colour, and there is little problem.



Yes, I also prepare the document before editing it on EPD. I operate on full documents, already written and formatted: I work on the original text. I do not format the document on the Max2, also because Kingsoft does not have good Style (in the technical sense) management. For people who intend to produce documents from scratch, Kingsoft can anyway apply Styles.
You do not need any Internet normally - you do if you use Google and MS-Word.
If that is a nuisance don't use the file in Google drive, just copy it to the Max2 memory
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Old 05-05-2018, 04:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdp View Post
I have done many thousands of edits on EPD through Kingsoft, not just hundreds: most happily.
The EPD refresh is not nice to the eyes, but you can simply not look at it: when I type I think of the concept and look later, I do not fixate direcly on the updating strings. It's a knack that comes very natural. I fixate the screen while reading, not while writing.
An LCD screen is, as written, not comparable: it is improper (fights against environmental light) and impractical (it won't work properly) to use it under natural light. The whole idea is: Office Automation under natural lighting. Otherwise, why would I be using EPD? If you want the perks of LCD, find a room; if you want light, you can use EPD.
The screen technology is either an advantage to you, or use something different. The EPD screen technology allows me to work anywhere, so here it's a godsent, not a disadvantage.
The mention of the hardware specifications was only relevant to stating that full Office Automation software is supposed to be able to work well - fast enough - on devices like the Max2 and the note, and it does, without the need to resort to simpler software, unable to fully render page content. It's got nothing to do with the screen.
I have met text which was originally in colour, and there is little problem.



Yes, I also prepare the document before editing it on EPD. I operate on full documents, already written and formatted: I work on the original text. I do not format the document on the Max2, also because Kingsoft does not have good Style (in the technical sense) management. For people who intend to produce documents from scratch, Kingsoft can anyway apply Styles.
You do not need any Internet normally - you do if you use Google and MS-Word.
When you write you don't have to look at the screen but when you edit you do. It is when editing that I prefer a proper computer and a LCD. Frankly, if you don't see what I mean about screen refresh and response time when editing I don't know what more to say. To each his own...I guess.
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supertoth View Post
When you write you don't have to look at the screen but when you edit you do. It is when editing that I prefer a proper computer and a LCD
It's very basic: mostly, I read, and when I type I do not fixate the changing graphics on the screen - it comes perfectly natural.
Editing to me involves a lot of reading: that is why EPD comes very handy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supertoth View Post
Frankly, if you don't see what I mean about screen refresh and response time when editing
I see what you mean, and I call it a minor issue, also and especially given that Office Automation on EPD is an enabling factor - it allows you to do what formerly you could not. With compromises, should you wish to consider the advantages more important than the disadvantages.

So, if you want to do your editing in the glory of light, you have a way. Otherwise, if what you want is LCD like behaviour, again: find a room.
This thread being about convertible vehicles, «But doesn't the wind - », «Yes a bit.», «So -», «Nobody said you cannot get a bike or a van».
Myself, it was already painful to write that reply of mine 12 hours ago on an OLED display, faint in spite of the shadow scraped off the air and me blowing on the screen to remove that little I could of the ambient light.

I will post a demonstrative video tomorrow.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:27 AM   #15
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I published a demonstration on YouTube:



Quote:
Chunks of a session of document editing with Kingsoft Office Writer, word processor, on the Onyx Boox Max2 (RK3288 based tablet with EPD display).
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