Content WHat Kindle Does Behind the Scenes

JSWolf · 09-20-2019, 08:15 PM

Here is an article from 2017 telling what Amazon does behind the scenes with KFX. Is this still what happens? Is it still as bad as this article makes it out to be?

https://medium.com/@jiminypan/what-k...s-3d1be22efce3

jhowell · 09-20-2019, 10:34 PM

I think that article is intentionally inflammatory, but is largely based on the truth. KFX is a totally proprietary format. Amazon went out of their way to avoid using EPUB, HTML, and any other standard related to e-books in KFX.

Every book in KFX format has DRM, even if the publisher opted out of it. On top of that when a method of removing KFX DRM became available Amazon quickly moved to update their DRM to prevent its removal. I have seen other signs that indicate they are serious about keeping KFX DRM intact in the future.

So while KFX provides improved ebook rendering on Kindle devices it also serves Amazon's desire for lock in to their proprietary ecosystem. What I still can't figure out is why they haven't taken steps to close the DRM loopholes in their other formats. I suspect that will happen at some point.

odamizu · 09-20-2019, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

... I suspect that will happen at some point.

Stop saying that!

Barty · 09-21-2019, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

What I still can't figure out is why they haven't taken steps to close the DRM loopholes in their other formats. I suspect that will happen at some point.

It'd probably break too many things and it's not worth the headache. They'll simply continue to phase out the old formats and lock kfx down.

It's really bogus that you can't force ragged margin if your book "doesn't support enhanced formatting." Ugh.

murraypaul · 09-21-2019, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Here is an article from 2017 telling what Amazon does behind the scenes with KFX. Is this still what happens? Is it still as bad as this article makes it out to be?

I stopped reading at this point:

Quote:

Enhanced Typography is a new format which screws both users and publishers. It’s a new paradigm Jeff Bezos had to veto should he care about making the world a better place. It proves Amazon consider us fucking slaves.

I can't trust any information that might come from a source that is so biased.

JSWolf · 09-21-2019, 09:44 AM

What is it that KFX does that cannot be done with an updated KF8 renderer? RMSDK (ADE) does "enhanced typesetting" without the need for a special format.

TheSmitty · 09-21-2019, 10:21 AM

Is KFX used yet? Not sure I have seen it around. I do backup my books and in other formats in case. But I own kindles (2 of them now) and only buy from Amazon for the convenience. If I ran into situation in which I could not backup my books I would buy elsewhere in which I can. Then I guess it would be a hassle to copy to my kindles?

And to be open about it, I have never shared my backups with friends or family. It is not something I tell them I could do.

JSWolf · 09-21-2019, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSmitty

Is KFX used yet? Not sure I have seen it around. I do backup my books and in other formats in case. But I own kindles (2 of them now) and only buy from Amazon for the convenience. If I ran into situation in which I could not backup my books I would buy elsewhere in which I can. Then I guess it would be a hassle to copy to my kindles?

And to be open about it, I have never shared my backups with friends or family. It is not something I tell them I could do.

I used to share some eBooks with my mother. But then, I know my mother would never share with anyone else. She shouldn't have known how. I do share with my wife and my mother-in-law. I have no moral issues with that at all.

NullNix · 09-21-2019, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSmitty

Is KFX used yet? Not sure I have seen it around.

If your Kindle can handle it, and you buy new enough books from the Kindle Store (published in the last six years or so, or a huge selection of older books that have been retrospectively converted) that don't contain crazily complex tables etc that KFX intentionally does not implement support for, and you get them over the air, KFX has been passed to your Kindle for years. This is often "most books". About 2/3rds of the books on my Kindle are KFXes (which I don't let worry me as long as I can still download non-KFX versions for backup).

TheSmitty · 09-21-2019, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I used to share some eBooks with my mother. But then, I know my mother would never share with anyone else. She shouldn't have known how. I do share with my wife and my mother-in-law. I have no moral issues with that at all.

Yeah I agree, I see no problem with that either.

TheSmitty · 09-21-2019, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NullNix

(which I don't let worry me as long as I can still download non-KFX versions for backup).

That is most likely my case as well as I get the initial copy to backup from the amazon download which apparently are not KFX.
I guess in looking at stuff on the kindle itself there is no way to determine what format it is in.

I like the way it all works now and happily buy my books on amazon but glad I can backup them up.

Quoth · 09-21-2019, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What is it that KFX does that cannot be done with an updated KF8 renderer? RMSDK (ADE) does "enhanced typesetting" without the need for a special format.

Indeed eBooks I create using AZW3 from Calibre look the same on a PW3 as the epub looks on a Sony PRS350, Nook Touch, Kobo H2O original and the original LibreOffice Writer (set to have a smaller page size).

Surely KFX is purely about Mobile delivery bandwidth and DRM. Not whatsoever about appearance.

Also Amazon are breaking civil law if they add DRM to a title supposed to be DRM free.

Quoth · 09-21-2019, 03:28 PM

PW3 Model:
If you select "Transfer via USB" you get AZW. If you select OTA / direct download (even if really Broadband + WiFi and not Whispernet), you get KFX, since at least 2018 here.
I've not bought off Amazon for a few months, so I don't know if it's still true.

App users may get something different.

DiapDealer · 09-21-2019, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Surely KFX is purely about Mobile delivery bandwidth and DRM. Not whatsoever about appearance.

I'm sure it fits your narrative to think that, but there are some actual aesthetic advantages to kfx. Content creators strive to meet the criteria necessary so their books can be converted to KFX without problems. Why would they choose to do this when they could just throw a wrench in the works to prevent conversion (not that a few don't do this, as well)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Also Amazon are breaking civil law if they add DRM to a title supposed to be DRM free.

Well lock 'em up!

I doubt the law is quite as black and white as you want it to be, here. Besides... it's been a long time since Amazon billed ebooks as "DRM Free" on their site. You might see "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" though.

Quoth · 09-22-2019, 07:26 AM

Civil law is very different to Criminal Law. Publishers & Copyright owners would have to take Amazon to court and sue. Very expensive.

It's nothing to do with how Amazon advertises the books, the publishers get to to choose on a per book basis (including self publishers) if a book is DRM free or not.

KFX is nothing to do with presentation despite what Amazon say. Nor have publishers/uploaders any control over the conversion process other than choosing epub, mobi, docx etc as the upload format. Certain kinds of Amazon electronic books are not traditional ebooks (such as some textbooks) and don't work on eink based readers at all. They are converted differently and are more like PDFs.

09-20-2019, 08:15 PM	#1
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,749 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	WHat Kindle Does Behind the Scenes Here is an article from 2017 telling what Amazon does behind the scenes with KFX. Is this still what happens? Is it still as bad as this article makes it out to be? https://medium.com/@jiminypan/what-k...s-3d1be22efce3

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Behind the Scenes - The Kobo eReader Firmware Upgrade	mTamblyn	Kobo Reader	36	08-24-2016 08:54 PM
Audible (Behind-the-Scenes Video)	Fbone	Audiobook Discussions	15	05-27-2016 03:23 PM
Need Help With Writing Romantic Scenes	MrKyle	Writers' Corner	5	08-08-2010 11:00 AM

09-20-2019, 10:34 PM	#2
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,070 Karma: 91577715 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlottesville, VA Device: Kindles	I think that article is intentionally inflammatory, but is largely based on the truth. KFX is a totally proprietary format. Amazon went out of their way to avoid using EPUB, HTML, and any other standard related to e-books in KFX. Every book in KFX format has DRM, even if the publisher opted out of it. On top of that when a method of removing KFX DRM became available Amazon quickly moved to update their DRM to prevent its removal. I have seen other signs that indicate they are serious about keeping KFX DRM intact in the future. So while KFX provides improved ebook rendering on Kindle devices it also serves Amazon's desire for lock in to their proprietary ecosystem. What I still can't figure out is why they haven't taken steps to close the DRM loopholes in their other formats. I suspect that will happen at some point.

09-21-2019, 09:44 AM	#6
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,749 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	What is it that KFX does that cannot be done with an updated KF8 renderer? RMSDK (ADE) does "enhanced typesetting" without the need for a special format.

09-21-2019, 10:21 AM	#7
TheSmitty Addict Posts: 317 Karma: 1181422 Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: DFW, TX area Device: Kindle Colorsoft, Libra Colour, Voyage, iPad Pro 11, iPad Mini 7	Is KFX used yet? Not sure I have seen it around. I do backup my books and in other formats in case. But I own kindles (2 of them now) and only buy from Amazon for the convenience. If I ran into situation in which I could not backup my books I would buy elsewhere in which I can. Then I guess it would be a hassle to copy to my kindles? And to be open about it, I have never shared my backups with friends or family. It is not something I tell them I could do.

09-21-2019, 03:28 PM	#13
Quoth Still reading Posts: 14,025 Karma: 105092227 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	PW3 Model: If you select "Transfer via USB" you get AZW. If you select OTA / direct download (even if really Broadband + WiFi and not Whispernet), you get KFX, since at least 2018 here. I've not bought off Amazon for a few months, so I don't know if it's still true. App users may get something different.

09-22-2019, 07:26 AM	#15
Quoth Still reading Posts: 14,025 Karma: 105092227 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper	Civil law is very different to Criminal Law. Publishers & Copyright owners would have to take Amazon to court and sue. Very expensive. It's nothing to do with how Amazon advertises the books, the publishers get to to choose on a per book basis (including self publishers) if a book is DRM free or not. KFX is nothing to do with presentation despite what Amazon say. Nor have publishers/uploaders any control over the conversion process other than choosing epub, mobi, docx etc as the upload format. Certain kinds of Amazon electronic books are not traditional ebooks (such as some textbooks) and don't work on eink based readers at all. They are converted differently and are more like PDFs.

Advert

Advert