To sync or not to sync

[Quoth]

Another problem with this firmware. If I use Wikipedia or Google to search for a term or word in a book and don't turn WiFi off, then often it decides to sync. The tick appears in the ( ) icon. Yet sync is off in settings.
I also have reporting off.
No account setup except the Kobo one needed for first setup.

Any idea how to stop it? Is is some sort of analytics reporting I can disable in Calibre (the settings on the Kobo Utilites are a little confusing).

Kobo H2O original with SD slot.

[compurandom]

I don't think it's doing the sync that you have unchecked.

I think some background process gets stuck trying to download stuff though. Whatever it is, it keeps the wifi on and drains the battery.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

Another problem with this firmware. If I use Wikipedia or Google to search for a term or word in a book and don't turn WiFi off, then often it decides to sync. The tick appears in the ( ) icon. Yet sync is off in settings.
I also have reporting off.
No account setup except the Kobo one needed for first setup.

Any idea how to stop it? Is is some sort of analytics reporting I can disable in Calibre (the settings on the Kobo Utilites are a little confusing).

Kobo H2O original with SD slot.

You haven't turned off sync. What you have turned off is an once-a-day automatic full sync. It will sync at other times including just after WiFi is turned for the first time in a while. The only way to stop it is to do some patching.

And there is absolutely nothing in the Kobo Utilities plugin related to syncing. And yes, I'm completely baffled why you think the settings for it are confusing. But, I suppose if you went in with the mistaken idea that it had anything to do with the device syncing to the Kobo server, that would make things hard to understand.

[Quoth]

There are analytics settings on the Kobo stuff on Calibre. Obviously that involves communication to the "mothership".
Is there a list of domains the Kobo uses? I don't want a random Firmware update when I'm in the middle of reading or proofing. That happened once.
The settings then on the Kobo are misleading.
Syncing and updates
Automatic sync: [ ] On
Sync time Night V (greyed out)

By any reasonable definition if Automatic <something> is off, then it's purely manual. That assumption is re-enforced by the fact that Sync has an icon between Battery and Search on the top tool bar.

Obviously my experience suggests your explanation is true. However it's misleading of Kobo. Are they trying to compete with MS, Google and Amazon for misleading users?

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

There are analytics settings on the Kobo stuff on Calibre. Obviously that involves communication to the "mothership".

There is one option in Kobo Utilities to create a trigger to prevent some analytics being stored in the database. This function is described in the help. And I don't consider that a "setting".

Is there a list of domains the Kobo uses? I don't want a random Firmware update when I'm in the middle of reading or proofing. That happened once.

If you want to completely block the sync, look at the patches.

Oh, and once out of how many hours of reading?

The settings then on the Kobo are misleading.
Syncing and updates
Automatic sync: [ ] On
Sync time Night V (greyed out)

By any reasonable definition if Automatic <something> is off, then it's purely manual. That assumption is re-enforced by the fact that Sync has an icon between Battery and Search on the top tool bar.

Obviously my experience suggests your explanation is true. However it's misleading of Kobo. Are they trying to compete with MS, Google and Amazon for misleading users?

I have disagree with you about that setting. It doesn't say anything about never doing a sync. It is only about an scheduled sync.

[rashkae]

Originally Posted by davidfor

I have disagree with you about that setting. It doesn't say anything about never doing a sync. It is only about an scheduled sync.

I'll have to agree with Frustrated Reader there... if *Automatic* sync is turned off, I would expect the Kobo to not sync until the explicit sync button is pressed.

[John F]

Originally Posted by rashkae

I'll have to agree with Frustrated Reader there... if *Automatic* sync is turned off, I would expect the Kobo to not sync until the explicit sync button is pressed.

+1 ...

[ReaLx3m]

Originally Posted by rashkae

I'll have to agree with Frustrated Reader there... if *Automatic* sync is turned off, I would expect the Kobo to not sync until the explicit sync button is pressed.

Even though it never bothered me, i have the same sentiment and always thought that is the case.

Originally Posted by rashkae

I'll have to agree with Frustrated Reader there... if *Automatic* sync is turned off, I would expect the Kobo to not sync until the explicit sync button is pressed.

Originally Posted by John F

+1 ...

+1 more

[Quoth]

Not only that, but screen going blank & Firmware update WITHOUT asking to do it later, while in middle of annotating a 110K word book.
I have to switch off WiFi at once after looking up a word or phrase on Wikipedia or Google.

It's happened far too many times, though the FW update in the middle of reading was only once. That was alarming!

I read a lot as well as using the eReader for annotation/proofing. Sync serves no purpose anyway as I only have one Kobo device and on the occasion I do actually buy eBooks I buy from Smashwords or Amazon. I've never bought from any other seller of eBooks. I can get updates on FW via Calibre or links published here.

I buy more paper ones than eBooks and some have come with a free download of the eBook version.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by rashkae

I'll have to agree with Frustrated Reader there... if *Automatic* sync is turned off, I would expect the Kobo to not sync until the explicit sync button is pressed.

I should have commented when @FrustratedReader posted his "details" of the sync settings. Because, as most of us do, he only showed what he thought supported his argument. He omitted three things.

Firstly, the section is labeled "Background Sync".

Then the options for the "Sync time" are "Night", "Morning", "Afternoon" and "Evening".

And of course, the description for the setting is:

When daily Automatic Sync is on, your books, articles, and software will remain up to date.

If you actually read the screen, why would anyone think that this had anything thing to do with anything other than the daily automatic sync. There is nothing that suggests anything about syncing at other times.

And the Kobo devices have always synced at various times. Or at least the devices that you and @FrustratedReader list as having always have. And all of those are always in response to something you do. They aren't always full syncs, but, something is synced each if the device is connected.

And if anyone can be bothered to read the manual, it explicitly states that the way to connect the device to WiFi is to hit the sync button on the home page. So, you are told that any time you use the WiFi, it will attempt to sync.

Is this ideal? Probably not. Should it be clearer what happens and when? Probably. Does the setting being discussed turn off all syncing? Absolutely not.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Firstly, the section is labeled "Background Sync".

Then the options for the "Sync time" are "Night", "Morning", "Afternoon" and "Evening".

The opposite of Background & Automatic is MANUAL. Clicking the Sync icon.

You are being overly pedantic.

I don't know why you are defending Kobo's ludicrous use of sync without user selection, which can result in an automatic firmware update.

The fact that there are a choice of times for an automatic sync doesn't suggest that with this setting off that Automatic Sync (in the background) STILL happens, but at a random time. That's crazy if that is what Kobo really mean and the automatic background sync STILL occurring isn't a bug.

If what you claim is true and that by design the intention that background sync is NEVER disabled, except obviously by disabling wifi, then that is a totally wrong decision by Kobo. Actually WORSE than a bug.

Are ex Windows 10 programmers designing this stuff?

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Is this ideal? Probably not. Should it be clearer what happens and when? Probably. Does the setting being discussed turn off all syncing? Absolutely not.

I'm with the OP, though, that it is not unreasonable to expect it to. There are other things that will have your Kobo attempt to connect to WiFI that have nothing to do with syncing, and which do not need you to hit the sync button.

That hitting the Sync button will have it sync is expected behaviour; that being connected to WiFi for other reasons with 'Automatic Sync' disabled will have it sync automatically anyway certainly is not.

[rashkae]

Originally Posted by davidfor

And if anyone can be bothered to read the manual, it explicitly states that the way to connect the device to WiFi is to hit the sync button on the home page. So, you are told that any time you use the WiFi, it will attempt to sync.

The entire string of logic here is entirely inverse to my own. I'm not going to debate it, I wouldn't even now what thread to pull to start.

And unfortunately, I'm only talking about the impression I get of what happens from the posts here. I've never successfully registered a Kobo, (the three times I've tried on a device launch date, Kobo Registratonn servers failed for 1 reason or other,), so I don't even have a device to test without putting more work than I think Kobo synching is worth.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by FrustratedReader

The opposite of Background & Automatic is MANUAL. Clicking the Sync icon.

But, read the screen. Please. Think about what it says. There is nothing on the screen that relates to anything other than the "daily automatic sync". There is nothing that implies any other behaviour than what is seen. It could be clearer, but, the actual behaviour is obvious.

You are being overly pedantic.

If being pedantic is means that I actually pay attention to the words in front of me and work out what they mean, then fine, I'm being "overly pedantic".

If we are going to call each other names, then I think "overly obtuse" should fit you.

I don't know why you are defending Kobo's ludicrous use of sync without user selection, which can result in an automatic firmware update.

Where? Where have I defended Kobo's behaviour? I have only explained how I understand it to works. And tried to get you to pay attention to what you see in front of you.

I disagree with how little control there is over the sync behaviour. And I have expressed that to Kobo when some of it changed. And guess what, they told me why it changed. Because their customers asked them to change it. There are plenty of other behaviour I don't like. I'll discuss them when and where I think they are appropriate. But, here, I am discussing how the devices currently work. What the options actually do and mean.

The fact that there are a choice of times for an automatic sync doesn't suggest that with this setting off that Automatic Sync (in the background) STILL happens, but at a random time. That's crazy if that is what Kobo really mean and the automatic background sync STILL occurring isn't a bug.

And there you demonstrate that you have no idea what is going on and did not read my post. NONE of the syncs are random. The ONLY sync that happens that is not in direct response to a user action is that Daily automatic scheduled sync. And that you can turn off. Every other time the device contacts the Kobo server is because the user did something. Open the book list, it checks if the list of books is up to date. Open a purchased kepub and it syncs the reading status. Close the book and it syncs the reading status. Open the Pocket articles and it syncs the list of articles. Turn on WiFi and it does a sync. None of that is random. All of it is in response to something the user did. And is bleeding obvious that it happening.

Oh, do you think it is random because it doesn't do the sync every single time you do one of these actions? Of course it doesn't. There isn't, usually, a point in doing a sync every minute. There is a minimum time between attempts to sync (the Pocket article sync is the exception and is done every time the list is opened). And of course, you can manually start the sync whenever you want.

If what you claim is true and that by design the intention that background sync is NEVER disabled, except obviously by disabling wifi, then that is a totally wrong decision by Kobo. Actually WORSE than a bug.

And as you are stuck on the term "background sync", can you tell me how to do a "foreground sync"? You can't. Because a "foreground sync" would take over the device. It wouldn't let you do anything else. Any time the device does any sort of sync it clearly shows that it is doing but doesn't interfere with the overall use of the device.

And yes, that is me being pedantic.

Just one more thing. None of this has changed recently. This is how it has worked for years. This is how it has always worked for the Kobo device that you have. Kobo does not pretend that it works any other way.