Adios, Sony!

[BettyE]

Well, Sony just made my decision for me as to whether or not I keep my new Kindle.

I have a PRS 500 and, one option, was to get the PRS 505 instead of the Kindle. Now, I see that Sony has abandoned the early adopters who bought the PRS 500 less than 2 years ago. No way to upgrade, even paying a fee to add memory.... They must have known about the memory issue for future upgrades even when they launched the PRS 500. When will they abandon the PRS 505?

What really gets me is that I have bought almost all my books from Sony, so I am a really good customer. But, this makes me so angry that I don't even want to use the Sony alongside the Kindle. I just want to move to the Kindle and not buy more books from Sony.

This is not the first time Sony left me high and dry - They abandoned the Clie line of PDAs, too.

I work in the high tech industry and I understand about the issues with doing R&D on an older product, etc., but this is really too much.

Betty

[MickeyC]

I don't blame you. If Sony had any sense and/or concern for their customers, they'd offer the 505's in trade for the old 500's at a low rate. That'd keep everyone happy.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by BettyE

No way to upgrade, even paying a fee to add memory.... They must have known about the memory issue for future upgrades even when they launched the PRS 500.

As a 505 owner myself, I feel that pain too, however there are a couple of points that occur to me.

The first is that there may not physically be a way to upgrade the memory in the 500's without essentially replacing all their innards. The board is pretty tightly packed, and there are all sorts of ways for a seemingly straightforward upgrade to not be possible. I don't know that this is the case here, but I have no trouble seeing the possibility.

As to what they "must have known" two years ago, before DE existed, so well before the requirements for its support were known by anyone ... well, I just can't bring myself to fault them for not possessing that level of precognizance. I see the argument that they might have put more memory in the device as a safeguard against future need, but these devices were already at the upper end of the manageable price range, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by BettyE

This is not the first time Sony left me high and dry - They abandoned the Clie line of PDAs, too.

Amazon doesn't have a spotless record here either, perhaps it didn't affect you or me, but Amazon has abandoned and cut off their e-book customers before.

In any case, you've got to do what seems best to you, and it sounds like that's what your doing. I do sincerely hope that you are satisfied with your Kindle for a very long time

... and that Amazon doesn't disappoint you with a similar lack of precognizance.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by cassidym

I don't blame you. If Sony had any sense and/or concern for their customers, they'd offer the 505's in trade for the old 500's at a low rate. That'd keep everyone happy.

Except perhaps Sony, who would have to eat the costs of such a deal (at a time when they're already eating lots of costs) They're in the business of making money, and business ain't all that good for them lately. If they had to eat that kind of cost for the PRS line, they'd probably just drop it entirely. I doubt the Reader team would have much say in the matter either. That's not something I want to see happen, myself.

[BettyE]

Originally Posted by NatCh

Except perhaps Sony, who would have to eat the costs of such a deal (at a time when they're already eating lots of costs) They're in the business of making money, and business ain't all that good for them lately. If they had to eat that kind of cost for the PRS line, they'd probably just drop it entirely. I doubt the Reader team would have much say in the matter either. That's not something I want to see happen, myself.

Cassidy and Nat -

I like the idea of a trade-in. Sony doesn't have to offer it at a killer price but it could help customer perception. I'm not asking them to lose money. They need to weigh it against loss of book revenue down the road.

Also, this would be similar to what they do in the printer industry. Everyone wants to keep the consumable revenue stream coming, so they offer trade-ins so the customer doesn't switch to a competitor's printer (and subsequent competitor's consumables).

There may be a new Kindle coming out in the Fall so we will see how much current Kindle owners are killed (including me).

I think the other part of my frustration is that I had Rocket eBook, too. That is not Sony's fault, but this e-book business is a bit painful until it grows up. Maybe I just have to accept that.

Betty

[dhbailey]

I'm a happy owner of the PRS500 and while I'd like Sony to upgrade the firmware so that it could take advantage of the Adobe ePub releases, I also realize it's not in their best interests to put money into it and so they may not. On the other hand some techie in the PRS division may try to see if it can be done and then we'll get it.

I bought it as it was when I bought and have been very happy with. When it dies, I'll buy the then-current model of the Sony.

I certainly wouldn't abandon the company over a perceived slight in the lack of current firmware update for a 2-year product.

But then I'm still happily using my iRiver MP3 player which hasn't had a firmware upgrade in 3 years.

I buy products for what they can do when they're purchased, not for some potential upgrade in the future.

I certainly wouldn't make the leap to Kindle just because Sony doesn't have a current firmware update for the 500 -- the Kindle doesn't do the Adobe ePub either, as far as I've heard, so abandoning the 500 because of the same lack doesn't make sense to me.

[sam1am]

Originally Posted by BettyE

Well, Sony just made my decision for me as to whether or not I keep my new Kindle.

I have a PRS 500 and, one option, was to get the PRS 505 instead of the Kindle. Now, I see that Sony has abandoned the early adopters who bought the PRS 500 less than 2 years ago. No way to upgrade, even paying a fee to add memory.... They must have known about the memory issue for future upgrades even when they launched the PRS 500. When will they abandon the PRS 505?

What really gets me is that I have bought almost all my books from Sony, so I am a really good customer. But, this makes me so angry that I don't even want to use the Sony alongside the Kindle. I just want to move to the Kindle and not buy more books from Sony.

This is not the first time Sony left me high and dry - They abandoned the Clie line of PDAs, too.

I work in the high tech industry and I understand about the issues with doing R&D on an older product, etc., but this is really too much.

Betty

While I agree with you that Sony usually sucks at supporting their customers/devices, etc. You can't really expect that they are going to support a device that is two generations old.

And the idea of a memory upgrade program is pretty ridiculous. 1. They're not going to set up a new facility to support a two-generation old device. 2. The memory is probably soldered the the board, making an upgrade expensive/difficult. They'd probably have to use all new boards.

I'm usually a rabble rouser about Sony too, believe me. But there's only so much you can reasonably expect from ANY company.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by BettyE

Everyone wants to keep the consumable revenue stream coming, so they offer trade-ins so the customer doesn't switch to a competitor's printer (and subsequent competitor's consumables).

That's an excellent point, but Sony has on several occasions said that their bookstore exists to support the Reader, not the reverse. A few other tidbits here and there make me lean towards believing they more or less mean it ... in as much as one can tell what marketing folks ever mean, of course.

If that's the case, and opening the platform up to other formats so radically certainly supports the idea, I doubt their primary concern is keeping us from buying books from other folks. Remember they allowed RTF from the beginning, and they reportedly tried to get Mobi on board, but Amazon won't share its toys with platforms that support formats other than Mobi.

Originally Posted by BettyE

There may be a new Kindle coming out in the Fall so we will see how much current Kindle owners are killed (including me).

I hope that they won't be, but there is always that possibility, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by BettyE

... this e-book business is a bit painful until it grows up.

That's the unfortunate nature of most of this technology stuff, they don't call it the "bleeding edge" for no reason. Chasing the shiny always brings some pain. It ain't fun ... but it's so darned shiny!

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by dhbailey

-- the Kindle doesn't do the Adobe ePub either, as far as I've heard, so abandoning the 500 because of the same lack doesn't make sense to me.

Sometime ago, I downloaded DE and a free copy of "Dracula" formatted for DE. I sent that file to Amazon for conversion and it works on my Kindle.

Isn't DE all ePub or am I confused?

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by NatCh

Amazon doesn't have a spotless record here either, perhaps it didn't affect you or me, but Amazon has abandoned and cut off their e-book customers before.

So, what happened and when was this?

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by daffy4u

Isn't DE all ePub or am I confused?

It also handles PDF files ... I think it may be aimed at replacing the Adobe Reader, but it may fill a different enough niche that the to will co-exist. I don't recall if it handles other file types than those two.

Originally Posted by daffy4u

So, what happened [with Amazon and e-books] and when was this?

I don't have the precise dates, unfortunately, but it was some years back, about the time the acquired Mobipocket. Up until that point they'd been selling several formats of e-books. One day they stopped selling them, but you could still re-download what you'd previously bought. About a year later you couldn't do that any longer.

I'm sure there are others who can provide more detail on it, but my primary point is that there aren't really any players in the e-book game that have spotless records ... not if they've been in it any time at all: they've all done something obnoxious at one point or another.

That's also the main reason I'm pumped about epub getting traction. PDF made a pretty good play at becoming a de-facto e-book standard (almost without Adobe even noticing, to all apperances), despite the fact that it's really not well suited to the purpose, simply because Adobe is so ubiquitous. Everyone has access to the Adobe Reader app, and most folks can make PDFs these days.

Now we have a format, epub, that is not only suited to the purpose of e-books, but has also been put forward by an trans-industry group as a standard, and an open one at that. Plus, this time Adobe is not only noticing, it's gotten behind and pushed pretty stoutly. It wouldn't surprise me if in ten years time e-Babel was all but a memory. (I'm not predicting that, mind, only saying it wouldn't surprise me at this point)

[daffy4u]

Thanks NatCh. I dealt so little with ebooks in the past (8 or 9 years ago) before purchasing a Kindle that I had never noticed Amazon selling ebook content.

Ithink you're right, I must have downloaded a pdf of "Dracula". Now, I'm going back to the DE sample page to see if I can snag a real ePub sample and experiment.

[NatCh]

If you're wanting one to play with, I suggest trying Feedbooks -- they've got thousands of the things lying around.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by NatCh

Except perhaps Sony, who would have to eat the costs of such a deal (at a time when they're already eating lots of costs) They're in the business of making money, and business ain't all that good for them lately. If they had to eat that kind of cost for the PRS line, they'd probably just drop it entirely. I doubt the Reader team would have much say in the matter either. That's not something I want to see happen, myself.

So instead they make their first customers eat the cost if they want to upgrade. I, for one, will not ever buy another Sony product because of this. We supported them by buying a new, rather expensive, untried product and for our support (which BTW showed the product to be viable) they turn around ad screw us. Bad, bad business decision.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by slayda

So instead they make their first customers eat the cost if they want to upgrade. I, for one, will not ever buy another Sony product because of this. We supported them by buying a new, rather expensive, untried product and for our support (which BTW showed the product to be viable) they turn around ad screw us. Bad, bad business decision.

As I said in another thread, it strikes me as a bit presumptuous to assume that a vendor is under some obligation to subsidize the upgrade of two-year-old hardware sold and purchased in good faith. I don't expect HP to offer me a trade-in on my (circa 1972) HP-35 calculator, for instance.

I figure that the almost 2 years of use I've gotten out of it in the meantime is worth something ... isn't it? Shouldn't I expect to pay for that use?

Frankly, I can still use it just as it is (and plan to! ) -- I just can't start using epub and reflowing PDF files on it is all. In other words, it does exactly what it did when I got it in the first place. And those of us who bought it evidently felt the price was fair at the time, and I rather doubt that we believed that the hardware would always be sufficient for any and all future advances ....

I don't understand how it's Sony's responsibility to pay me something for it just because there's a new model that will do more, and they couldn't see into the future well enough to build a product that would handle all future upgrade demands. Especially when, as you note, that hardware was pretty pricey to begin with.

I really, really wish that these new features were on my 500 myself, but they're not, and it looks like they can't be, but I decline to blame Sony for not predicting what couldn't be predicted in the first place.