Talk about HTML standards for Epub

ProDigit · 12-15-2015, 09:44 PM

Why does EPuB standards say they use HTML5 and not HTML4?

From what I grab, is that html 5 is more a browser thing, than a webpage thing.
It auto-corrects most common errors in HTML, doesn't use a <body> tag; but has additional <audio>, <Video>, <3D> and <Canvas>, the last one being the only one which could possibly be used on an ereader, however, I doubt that anyone is willing to give up pixels for a canvas on their already small screens...

Quote:

<acronym> : The <acronym> tag is not supported in HTML5. Use the <abbr> tag instead. The <acronym> tag was used to define acronyms in HTML 4.01.

<applet>: The <applet> tag is not supported in HTML5. Use the <object> tag instead.

I doubt that e-readers are using this feat, though I would be interested in if anyone ever has thought about using these feats in an ebook?

I'm not sure in what degree current ebook readers support all these tags, and if perhaps some devices would freeze or perhaps just ignore the tag?

The "<map>" feat. seems quite interesting!
If the hardware supports it, it would allow you to create and play adventure games on an e-ink device. It allows you to click on different locations on a picture, and get a different result depending on where you click on it.
If e-ink readers accept this feat., you could create a picture click adventure.

eschwartz · 12-15-2015, 09:47 PM

EPUB3 only supports a subset of HTML5.

audio/video is supported, but not the rest of what you mentioned.

EDIT: Only EPUB3

ProDigit · 12-15-2015, 10:05 PM

On my device, I don't have audio, and video tag generates a line saying that the media isn't supported ...

eschwartz · 12-15-2015, 10:25 PM

Well, your device must not be an EPUB3 device then.

Toxaris · 12-16-2015, 12:10 PM

To explain a bit more. ePUB3 uses a large subset of HTML5 as base and is poorly supported in e-readers (applications on tablets/pc are a bit better). ePUB2 is supported quite well (except funny enough in a lot of applications, where stylesheets are mostly ignored) and those use XHTML1.1, which is more or less an XML version of HTML4.
If you want high compatibility and you do not need the 'fancy' stuff of ePUB3, you are most definitely better off with ePUB2.

ProDigit · 12-18-2015, 01:16 AM

As I'm learning about epub, this kind of brings out a few issues.
I'll have to look at the differences between EPuB 2 and 3, and see which one is easier to make.
Then I'd have to worry if EPuB 2 support will remain strong on e-ink devices, or will become extinct in a few years (when epub 4 would come out).

I'm safer with EPuB 3, even if my device doesn't support the video content (which I'm not expecting it to).
Video playback capabilities can be nice to have on an e-ink device, but can also be seriously distracting, when vendors will start with animated .gif commercials, and later flash and or movie playback; which totally defeats the purpose of an e-ink device.

Same thing happened with about everything out there. Commercial has spammed, and flooded the television and radiowaves, the internet, and mobile websites too (that originally where created with a minimum on spam on overhead)...

Amazon already is using static images for commercial, so I'm glad that e-readers currently and mostly still don't support video playback.

DaleDe · 12-18-2015, 01:25 AM

You can start to understand things better using our wiki. There are articles that explain all you need to know.

ProDigit · 12-18-2015, 02:02 AM

[deleted comment]
Reason: No longer relative.

Toxaris · 12-18-2015, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProDigit

As I'm learning about epub, this kind of brings out a few issues.
I'll have to look at the differences between EPuB 2 and 3, and see which one is easier to make.
Then I'd have to worry if EPuB 2 support will remain strong on e-ink devices, or will become extinct in a few years (when epub 4 would come out).

I'm safer with EPuB 3, even if my device doesn't support the video content (which I'm not expecting it to).
Video playback capabilities can be nice to have on an e-ink device, but can also be seriously distracting, when vendors will start with animated .gif commercials, and later flash and or movie playback; which totally defeats the purpose of an e-ink device.

Same thing happened with about everything out there. Commercial has spammed, and flooded the television and radiowaves, the internet, and mobile websites too (that originally where created with a minimum on spam on overhead)...

Amazon already is using static images for commercial, so I'm glad that e-readers currently and mostly still don't support video playback.

The support for ePUB3 is scarce. Every reader and app supports ePUB2 and will continue to do so, because it is much easier. This is especially true for e-ink readers. Building and creating ePUB2 is also easier, since the most used editors support ePUB2 much better than ePUB3.

If you choose ePUB3, you are restricting yourself. It is possible to save or convert an ePUB2 as ePUB3.

My very, very strong advice is to keep at ePUB2 unless you really need the new functionality of ePUB3.

ProDigit · 12-18-2015, 05:13 AM

Thank you!
Since most tutorials and examples are Epub 2, I am doing it in that.

crankypants · 12-19-2015, 05:01 PM

Quote:

I'll have to look at the differences between EPuB 2 and 3, and see which one is easier to make.
Then I'd have to worry if EPuB 2 support will remain strong on e-ink devices, or will become extinct in a few years (when epub 4 would come out).

You might be asking the wrong question here. You should be thinking about 1) what features do most ereaders support (not many), so you can make your EPUB books available to the widest audience possible. I don't know a single ereader that supports all the features of EPUB2. You should stick with the basic features: bold, underline, italic.

ProDigit · 12-19-2015, 05:54 PM

EPuB3 is a version with more options than the previous one.
Obviously I'm going to write the books with only a fraction of what EPuB 2 is capable of, and the same is true for EPuB 3.
I found however, EPuB3 to be more complex, and it made less sense than epub2.
I don't like redundant coding, one of the reasons I stopped my classes in J++ (java), because of too many repetitive lines all saying the same thing.
I believe epub 2 is simpler, with less repetitive data.
My only concern was should the standard at some point get outdated or not...

JSWolf · 12-19-2015, 06:07 PM

What you do is use ADE 2.0.1on your computer to check how your ePub looks and if it looks as you want with ADE, then you are good to go. You cannot use Sigil or Calibre to see how it looks. Sigil and Calibre can display some things differently and they can be more tolerant of errors that would be an issue for ADE. ADE is the #1 used software for displaying ePub. It is what most dedicated Readers use.

ePub 2 is easier to make than ePub 3 and in most cases, you would not need ePub 3. I actually convert ePub 3 back to ePub 2.

ProDigit · 12-20-2015, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

What you do is use ADE 2.0.1on your computer to check how your ePub looks and if it looks as you want with ADE, then you are good to go.

Thanks for the suggestion,
Is there a reason why you go with ADE 2.01 instead of ADE 3.0?

eschwartz · 12-20-2015, 06:17 PM

ADE 3+ supports the new DRM.

Which means purchased books might become unreadable on E-Ink devices.
Also, you might not be able to DeDRM your purchases.

12-15-2015, 09:47 PM	#2
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	EPUB3 only supports a subset of HTML5. audio/video is supported, but not the rest of what you mentioned. EDIT: Only EPUB3 Last edited by eschwartz; 12-15-2015 at 10:27 PM. Reason: clarify: EPUB --> EPUB3

12-15-2015, 10:05 PM	#3
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	On my device, I don't have audio, and video tag generates a line saying that the media isn't supported ... Last edited by ProDigit; 12-15-2015 at 10:13 PM.

12-18-2015, 01:16 AM	#6
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	As I'm learning about epub, this kind of brings out a few issues. I'll have to look at the differences between EPuB 2 and 3, and see which one is easier to make. Then I'd have to worry if EPuB 2 support will remain strong on e-ink devices, or will become extinct in a few years (when epub 4 would come out). I'm safer with EPuB 3, even if my device doesn't support the video content (which I'm not expecting it to). Video playback capabilities can be nice to have on an e-ink device, but can also be seriously distracting, when vendors will start with animated .gif commercials, and later flash and or movie playback; which totally defeats the purpose of an e-ink device. Same thing happened with about everything out there. Commercial has spammed, and flooded the television and radiowaves, the internet, and mobile websites too (that originally where created with a minimum on spam on overhead)... Amazon already is using static images for commercial, so I'm glad that e-readers currently and mostly still don't support video playback. Last edited by ProDigit; 12-18-2015 at 01:21 AM.

12-18-2015, 02:02 AM	#8
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	[deleted comment] Reason: No longer relative. Last edited by ProDigit; 12-18-2015 at 04:32 AM.

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12-15-2015, 10:25 PM	#4
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	Well, your device must not be an EPUB3 device then.

12-16-2015, 12:10 PM	#5
Toxaris Wizard Posts: 4,520 Karma: 121692313 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Heemskerk, NL Device: PRS-T1, Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura	To explain a bit more. ePUB3 uses a large subset of HTML5 as base and is poorly supported in e-readers (applications on tablets/pc are a bit better). ePUB2 is supported quite well (except funny enough in a lot of applications, where stylesheets are mostly ignored) and those use XHTML1.1, which is more or less an XML version of HTML4. If you want high compatibility and you do not need the 'fancy' stuff of ePUB3, you are most definitely better off with ePUB2.

12-18-2015, 01:25 AM	#7
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	You can start to understand things better using our wiki. There are articles that explain all you need to know.

12-18-2015, 05:13 AM	#10
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	Thank you! Since most tutorials and examples are Epub 2, I am doing it in that.

12-19-2015, 05:54 PM	#12
ProDigit Karmaniac Posts: 2,553 Karma: 11499146 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Miami FL Device: PRS-505, Jetbook, + Mini, +Color, Astak Ez Reader Pro, PPW1, Aura H2O	EPuB3 is a version with more options than the previous one. Obviously I'm going to write the books with only a fraction of what EPuB 2 is capable of, and the same is true for EPuB 3. I found however, EPuB3 to be more complex, and it made less sense than epub2. I don't like redundant coding, one of the reasons I stopped my classes in J++ (java), because of too many repetitive lines all saying the same thing. I believe epub 2 is simpler, with less repetitive data. My only concern was should the standard at some point get outdated or not...

12-19-2015, 06:07 PM	#13
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,745 Karma: 145864619 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	What you do is use ADE 2.0.1on your computer to check how your ePub looks and if it looks as you want with ADE, then you are good to go. You cannot use Sigil or Calibre to see how it looks. Sigil and Calibre can display some things differently and they can be more tolerant of errors that would be an issue for ADE. ADE is the #1 used software for displaying ePub. It is what most dedicated Readers use. ePub 2 is easier to make than ePub 3 and in most cases, you would not need ePub 3. I actually convert ePub 3 back to ePub 2.

12-20-2015, 06:17 PM	#15
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	ADE 3+ supports the new DRM. Which means purchased books might become unreadable on E-Ink devices. Also, you might not be able to DeDRM your purchases.

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