Not a writer, but needing writers' advice

derangedhermit · 03-14-2015, 03:42 AM

I have access to almost 20 unpublished book manuscripts, written by an author of old-school Westerns. He was a very popular author decades ago. His published books start in the 1940's and he wrote Westerns for over 60 years. There may also be a few screenplays worth examining, since he had some strong Hollywood relationships.

The Western Writers of America (http://westernwriters.org) knew this man and his works well. They are having their annual meeting in Lubbock, TX in June this year. They have given assurance they want to see the manuscripts published and will help, if it can be worked on during the convention, with follow-up to be arranged. This can be done, and sounds very helpful.

That's where I am. My objectives are to get the works published, at least most of them, and to make what money can be made, for his grandson. He's a good man and could use whatever comes from it.

I find it difficult to think that attempting to publish in paper, the traditional way, would be a sound action. Maybe some POD if a quality product can be produced. That leaves, mainly, e-books of some sort, and maybe audiobooks. The manuscripts are mostly typewritten, with some hand-written changes. So I imagine I have what many of you have done or are doing (aside from the writing bit):
- Production
- Marketing
- Distribution

Should I start out by counting on the WWA for all direction and assistance? Is there any advice from here for preparing for working with them in good faith on the various issues that arise? Do I need an attorney? Some other specialist?

Any opinions on the market interest for unpublished books by a once semi-famous author?

cromag · 03-14-2015, 03:48 AM

If he started in the 40s and wrote for over 60 years, the works are certainly still under copyright. Having "access" is all well and good, but who holds the copyrights? You'll need their authorization.

derangedhermit · 03-14-2015, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cromag

If he started in the 40s and wrote for over 60 years, the works are certainly still under copyright. Having "access" is all well and good, but who holds the copyrights? You'll need their authorization.

Absolutely. The grandson says he does. I think that is the first thing that I need to verify and square away properly, both confirming it and/or documenting it legally, as needed, and discussing with interested family members (or any other parties that may have a claim). I would want to do that before meeting with the WWA.

thewitt · 03-14-2015, 05:16 AM

Turning those manuscripts into eBooks and POD books would not be out of the question, and self-publishing is very accessible these days.

You would still need someone to edit, format and publish - then of course comes the marketing part, which is where the real work lies if you expect to sell them...

If the books have never been published, and there are no copyrights filed in the US, then the rights likely to belong to the family. I would consider filing for rights in the US - though the reality of the law is once written, it is protected.

The big concern I would have would be that they might have been published in part in some early periodical, in which case the contract there might have passed along rights. Just something to consider.

I would never consider entering into an agreement "in good faith" when it comes to something with potential monetary gain, human nature being what it is.

It sounds like you will need to hire someone to edit, format and distribute the eBooks and POD book in the proper formats. Royalties would be paid to the "publisher" who submits the books to the various eBook stores - so unless you want to set up something where the grandson gets paid through a third party, you might want to get a family member to learn that role.

Good luck.

If you would like to talk more about what I think your options would be, feel free to PM me or contact me through my signature.

Catlady · 03-14-2015, 10:58 AM

What about contacting the publisher of his previous books to see if they have any interest in the material?

derangedhermit · 03-14-2015, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catlady

What about contacting the publisher of his previous books to see if they have any interest in the material?

Great suggestion. I see dozens of his books for sale on Amazon, from a number of publishers. Some are scanned OCRs according to one publishers, specializing in OOP books. I wonder who, if anyone, is receiving royalties for these books too? I was told no one in the family is.

Once an author and a publisher make a deal, does the publisher own the right to reprint forever? Can the publisher transfer (sell, I suppose) publication rights? I see one UK publisher selling "large print" editions of a few of his books through the US Amazon site.

I think my scope just expanded, if the family is willing, to see who is publishing and selling his already-released books today, and where the money is going, to make sure things are as they are supposed to be.

Thank you for bringing this up.

EDIT: There must be firms who do this research for authors (or whoever hold copyright and/or royalty rights). Can anyone recommend a few good firms who do this? This would be new to me, probably best to get someone who knows what they are about.

CarlAlves · 03-15-2015, 01:20 AM

This would not yet be a public domain book, so the rights would be with the family. You would have to get written permission from them to publish. Once you cleared that, self publishing them is probably the easiest route to go.

thewitt · 03-15-2015, 02:09 AM

If there are other versions of his books out there - particularly the ones that have been scanned - they may be illegal copies where the publisher thinks that the copyright is no longer valid.

I was contacted last year by someone who wanted to do this with a large stack of older books, however when I contacted several of the publishers about copyright, they were very clear that they would pursue any copyright infringement with both guns blazing - so to speak.

You might want to get the family busy - or maybe the members of your organization who want to help - chasing down the books currently being offered to make sure that the family's rights to the material (and the profits from the sales of that material) are being correctly managed.

mr ploppy · 03-15-2015, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derangedhermit

Once an author and a publisher make a deal, does the publisher own the right to reprint forever? Can the publisher transfer (sell, I suppose) publication rights?

That would depend on the contract he signed, which you wouldn't get access to unless it went to court. For pulp fiction, nobody really thought they would have much of an afterlife following publication, so you might be lucky. Authorisation from a surviving relative is better than nothing, but if someone sent a DMCA to Amazon they'd be pulled from sale regardless of who owns the rights.

derangedhermit · 03-15-2015, 08:19 PM

I think I will start in two areas:
- working with the family to see what records (contracts, wills, payment statements, etc) they have, and what they say they think the situation is, for both published and unpublished works. Then try to get something in writing they will all sign about ownership of unpublished works, to reduce the infighting if any money is ever made from the undertaking. Then take temporary possession of the manuscripts themselves for sending off for evaluation, scanning/copying, showing to the WWA, etc..
- looking at the US copyright web site, and researching the copyright for each of the published works.

I'm not part of an organization, just an acquaintance of the grandson who is fond of him, knows he wants this to be done, yet seems unable to make it happen - since years have passed and the situation remains unchanged. I don't want any money from it, and plan to cover any of my own personal expenses. Up-front costs for preparation for publication would have to be sorted ahead of time.

Lima Bean · 03-19-2015, 02:51 PM

Once you get the copyright issues squared away...

Don't approach this of this as a twenty book publishing endeavor. Choose one book, the most commercial of the lot, and think of it as a test subject.

Complete it from start to finish, including the marketing and selling. See how it does before you even think about investing in any of the others. If it does well, rustle the rest of 'em one at a time. Pardner.

Nancy Fulda · 03-23-2015, 02:58 PM

I agree with Lima Bean. 20 books is a mammoth project, and may become overwhelming. Start with one or two books, see how things go from there.

I also strongly recommend, if you do anything besides simply hooking the grandson up with a publisher, that you create a contractual arrangement. Even though you don't expect any money, it's a good idea to have a clearly written agreement regarding what you plan to do and confirming that these plans are endorsed by the copyright holder. It's amazing how easy it is for people -- even good people who trust each other -- to forget exactly what was agreed on five or ten years down the road.

Anna Drake · 03-26-2015, 08:11 AM

I think if I were a family member, I'd have my attorney contact the publishing houses that are still putting out the published books to ask where those royalties are going. Then, I'd start in on publishing the next lot.

erzebet · 04-01-2015, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derangedhermit

EDIT: There must be firms who do this research for authors (or whoever hold copyright and/or royalty rights). Can anyone recommend a few good firms who do this? This would be new to me, probably best to get someone who knows what they are about.

Before you talk with any intellectual property attorney or firm about this, do a simple search on the official copyright.gov search engine with his name:
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwe...cal&PAGE=First

03-14-2015, 03:42 AM	#1
derangedhermit Addict Posts: 239 Karma: 1280000 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Device: None	Not a writer, but needing writers' advice I have access to almost 20 unpublished book manuscripts, written by an author of old-school Westerns. He was a very popular author decades ago. His published books start in the 1940's and he wrote Westerns for over 60 years. There may also be a few screenplays worth examining, since he had some strong Hollywood relationships. The Western Writers of America (http://westernwriters.org) knew this man and his works well. They are having their annual meeting in Lubbock, TX in June this year. They have given assurance they want to see the manuscripts published and will help, if it can be worked on during the convention, with follow-up to be arranged. This can be done, and sounds very helpful. That's where I am. My objectives are to get the works published, at least most of them, and to make what money can be made, for his grandson. He's a good man and could use whatever comes from it. I find it difficult to think that attempting to publish in paper, the traditional way, would be a sound action. Maybe some POD if a quality product can be produced. That leaves, mainly, e-books of some sort, and maybe audiobooks. The manuscripts are mostly typewritten, with some hand-written changes. So I imagine I have what many of you have done or are doing (aside from the writing bit): - Production - Marketing - Distribution Should I start out by counting on the WWA for all direction and assistance? Is there any advice from here for preparing for working with them in good faith on the various issues that arise? Do I need an attorney? Some other specialist? Any opinions on the market interest for unpublished books by a once semi-famous author?

03-19-2015, 02:51 PM	#11
Lima Bean Groupie Posts: 172 Karma: 527094 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: USA (near Lima, Ohio) Device: Kindle	Once you get the copyright issues squared away... Don't approach this of this as a twenty book publishing endeavor. Choose one book, the most commercial of the lot, and think of it as a test subject. Complete it from start to finish, including the marketing and selling. See how it does before you even think about investing in any of the others. If it does well, rustle the rest of 'em one at a time. Pardner. Last edited by Lima Bean; 03-19-2015 at 02:56 PM.

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03-14-2015, 03:48 AM	#2
cromag Surfin the alpha waves ~~ Posts: 26,252 Karma: 459765791 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Jersey Device: Jetbook Lite & Mini, Nook STR, Kobo, Hanvon N516, Kindle 2, Androids	If he started in the 40s and wrote for over 60 years, the works are certainly still under copyright. Having "access" is all well and good, but who holds the copyrights? You'll need their authorization.

03-14-2015, 05:16 AM	#4
thewitt Zealot Posts: 129 Karma: 1135446 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Miami, Florida Device: iBooks	Turning those manuscripts into eBooks and POD books would not be out of the question, and self-publishing is very accessible these days. You would still need someone to edit, format and publish - then of course comes the marketing part, which is where the real work lies if you expect to sell them... If the books have never been published, and there are no copyrights filed in the US, then the rights likely to belong to the family. I would consider filing for rights in the US - though the reality of the law is once written, it is protected. The big concern I would have would be that they might have been published in part in some early periodical, in which case the contract there might have passed along rights. Just something to consider. I would never consider entering into an agreement "in good faith" when it comes to something with potential monetary gain, human nature being what it is. It sounds like you will need to hire someone to edit, format and distribute the eBooks and POD book in the proper formats. Royalties would be paid to the "publisher" who submits the books to the various eBook stores - so unless you want to set up something where the grandson gets paid through a third party, you might want to get a family member to learn that role. Good luck. If you would like to talk more about what I think your options would be, feel free to PM me or contact me through my signature.

03-14-2015, 10:58 AM	#5
Catlady Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,418 Karma: 52613881 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip	What about contacting the publisher of his previous books to see if they have any interest in the material?

03-15-2015, 01:20 AM	#7
CarlAlves Junior Member Posts: 4 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2015 Device: none	This would not yet be a public domain book, so the rights would be with the family. You would have to get written permission from them to publish. Once you cleared that, self publishing them is probably the easiest route to go.

03-15-2015, 02:09 AM	#8
thewitt Zealot Posts: 129 Karma: 1135446 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Miami, Florida Device: iBooks	If there are other versions of his books out there - particularly the ones that have been scanned - they may be illegal copies where the publisher thinks that the copyright is no longer valid. I was contacted last year by someone who wanted to do this with a large stack of older books, however when I contacted several of the publishers about copyright, they were very clear that they would pursue any copyright infringement with both guns blazing - so to speak. You might want to get the family busy - or maybe the members of your organization who want to help - chasing down the books currently being offered to make sure that the family's rights to the material (and the profits from the sales of that material) are being correctly managed.

03-15-2015, 08:19 PM	#10
derangedhermit Addict Posts: 239 Karma: 1280000 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Device: None	I think I will start in two areas: - working with the family to see what records (contracts, wills, payment statements, etc) they have, and what they say they think the situation is, for both published and unpublished works. Then try to get something in writing they will all sign about ownership of unpublished works, to reduce the infighting if any money is ever made from the undertaking. Then take temporary possession of the manuscripts themselves for sending off for evaluation, scanning/copying, showing to the WWA, etc.. - looking at the US copyright web site, and researching the copyright for each of the published works. I'm not part of an organization, just an acquaintance of the grandson who is fond of him, knows he wants this to be done, yet seems unable to make it happen - since years have passed and the situation remains unchanged. I don't want any money from it, and plan to cover any of my own personal expenses. Up-front costs for preparation for publication would have to be sorted ahead of time.

03-23-2015, 02:58 PM	#12
Nancy Fulda I write stories. Posts: 700 Karma: 16437432 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northern Germany Device: kindle	I agree with Lima Bean. 20 books is a mammoth project, and may become overwhelming. Start with one or two books, see how things go from there. I also strongly recommend, if you do anything besides simply hooking the grandson up with a publisher, that you create a contractual arrangement. Even though you don't expect any money, it's a good idea to have a clearly written agreement regarding what you plan to do and confirming that these plans are endorsed by the copyright holder. It's amazing how easy it is for people -- even good people who trust each other -- to forget exactly what was agreed on five or ten years down the road.

03-26-2015, 08:11 AM	#13
Anna Drake Zealot Posts: 104 Karma: 2175016 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: rural Illinois, USA Device: Kindle	I think if I were a family member, I'd have my attorney contact the publishing houses that are still putting out the published books to ask where those royalties are going. Then, I'd start in on publishing the next lot.

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