kepub stuff

[Lynx-lynx]

There seems to be lots to discuss about the kepub format, and lots of different threads and posts to discuss it. And the chatter seems to be fairly similar, some people like it/love it, others loathe it, and yet others again are quite happy to have both versions of the book - kepub and epub.

Kepub certainly serves a purpose, it provides for the synchronisation of the book/s you're reading across multiple devices and the Desktop App. And therefore it's a very useful tool for people who read the same book across their devices.

I suppose the recent Nook move to remove the download option has got people thinking about whether the other stores like Kobo are going to follow suit. And with kepub already well established by Kobo it wouldn't take much for them to decide to also do away with the download option. After all Kobo issues a kepub for every ebook sold, but doesn't currently issue an epub format with every ebook sold.

And it's this aspect that's got some of the other forums/blogs discussing it as well. For example, Alf's blog has some very useful info by Helpful Helper and you'll find it right near the bottom of the blogs.

Of course it's a wait and see game as to whether Kobo stops the download option, but it's good to be prepared.

edit
There's a new version of the plugin and Nate's updated the link in his Article over at Digital Reader and Rosie's posted details of the changes.

[hleo12]

I think pulling out the download option for their site would be the most ridiculous thing Kobo could ever do... Barnes and Noble is really being under attack from "power users" for doing it... But I'm really staying positive. I don't really buy books from Kobo, but I know the books store is really where they get their money from. No money means less support and no new ereaders...

[JSWolf]

I don't mind having both kepub and ePub options for the same eBook. It's when we only have kepub as an option that it's a problem. Some publishers are publishing (needlessly) ePub 3 format ePub and when Kobo's soft3ware sees that the ePub is an ePub 3 it gets converted to a kepub with no option to download it as a plain old ePub 3 eBook. One publisher that's moved to ePub 3 is Tor and their ePub 3 eBooks are being sold at Kobo as kepub only. This is against Tor's DRM free policy for one. Also, it means that a lot of people cannot do with it as they want. And finally, because it's getting kepubed, it means the ePub is getting heavily modified. Even stripping the DRM and then stripping the kepub additions using Modify ePub, the eBook is still not the same as it should be.

This is something that Kobo needs to fix and fast before all the BPHs go ePub 3 and all we get are kepub.

[Abtacha]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One publisher that's moved to ePub 3 is Tor and their ePub 3 eBooks are being sold at Kobo as kepub only. This is against Tor's DRM free policy for one. .

No it's not. A book provided as kepub only does not necessarily have DRM. As DNSB pointed out in the Scalzi thread Tors kepubs are indeed DRM free.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Abtacha

No it's not. A book provided as kepub only does not necessarily have DRM. As DNSB pointed out in the Scalzi thread Tors kepubs are indeed DRM free.

OK, they may be DRM free, but they are heavily modified and that's not good at all. You go and buy Lock In and there's a good chance it won't work properly with ADE.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

OK, they may be DRM free, but they are heavily modified and that's not good at all. You go and buy Lock In and there's a good chance it won't work properly with ADE.

Lets see, if you supply an DOC file to Smashwords, it get heavily modified to produce the epub or other formats they support. And Amazon is doing the same thing. So, what's the difference for Kobo? All they are doing is taking an import and changing it to the format that they support.

Of course, the problem for Kobo is that there are a lot more people out there buying books than have Kobo devices or the apps. Not supplying a more widely supported format is shooting themselves in the foot. That means that all those other readers out there have no reason to come to the Kobo shop and buy books from them. That's a mistake for Kobo and they should fix.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Lets see, if you supply an DOC file to Smashwords, it get heavily modified to produce the epub or other formats they support. And Amazon is doing the same thing. So, what's the difference for Kobo? All they are doing is taking an import and changing it to the format that they support.

The problem here is that Kobo took the eBook business from Sony. I have a T1. My T1 does not handle kepub and its DRM at all. Now because Kobo took over from Sony, you would think the eBooks they sell would all be in ePub. But they are not. And that's the problem. The listings for the eBooks do not tell you what format you get. Many people won't have a clue how to figure this out. So they buy and get a kepub that they have no idea what to do with even if it has no DRM. They don't have the Desktop program installed and even if they did, they'd not have a clue from there after it was downloaded. This is more serious then you think. It;s going to get people to leave Kobo when they end up buying kepub instead of ePub.

Of course, the problem for Kobo is that there are a lot more people out there buying books than have Kobo devices or the apps. Not supplying a more widely supported format is shooting themselves in the foot. That means that all those other readers out there have no reason to come to the Kobo shop and buy books from them. That's a mistake for Kobo and they should fix.

Another thing is I should not have to jump through hoops to get any eBooks purchased from Kobo onto my T1. It is a process that's can be a real hassle, one that I should not have to go through. Also there are a lot of people that can't do it at all and would just be pissed that the eBook just bought cannot be read.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem here is that Kobo took the eBook business from Sony. I have a T1. My T1 does not handle kepub and its DRM at all. Now because Kobo took over from Sony, you would think the eBooks they sell would all be in ePub. But they are not. And that's the problem. The listings for the eBooks do not tell you what format you get. Many people won't have a clue how to figure this out. So they buy and get a kepub that they have no idea what to do with even if it has no DRM. They don't have the Desktop program installed and even if they did, they'd not have a clue from there after it was downloaded. This is more serious then you think. It;s going to get people to leave Kobo when they end up buying kepub instead of ePub.



Another thing is I should not have to jump through hoops to get any eBooks purchased from Kobo onto my T1. It is a process that's can be a real hassle, one that I should not have to go through. Also there are a lot of people that can't do it at all and would just be pissed that the eBook just bought cannot be read.

Did you actually read what I wrote? That was the whole point. For anyone not using a Kobo ereader or app, as soon as they find out there is no easy to use format of the book, they will go elsewhere.

But, Kobo probably already know this. The probably already have plans. Of course, what we are seeing might be deliberate. They might have decided to abandon the non-Kobo reader market. I hope not and I don't think they will. That would be abandoning a lot more potential customers than they have. I think it's much more likely that the lack of a downloadable epub version of a lot of books is an oversight, an error or a shortcoming in their software or processes. If we take the case of the John Scalzi book that has been discussed, it is very likely that their software or processes simply don't handle epub3 as the input properly. Fixing that is unlikely to be simple. My expectation is that we will see more of these problems turn up in the next little while and then they will all be suddenly fixed when Kobo update their software and processes.

[PeterT]

See this post --> https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...6&postcount=58

Originally Posted by Nate the great

They say they're going to fix it:

http://the-digital-reader.com/2014/0...ownload-issue/

[robko]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Another thing is I should not have to jump through hoops to get any eBooks purchased from Kobo onto my T1. It is a process that's can be a real hassle, one that I should not have to go through. Also there are a lot of people that can't do it at all and would just be pissed that the eBook just bought cannot be read.

Just because Kobo bought Sonys ebook business in no way means they have any obligation to provide you with new books in a format that works on your Sony (arguably they do for books you had purchased thru Sony). Is it in their best commercial interest to do so? Heck ya! Are they idiots for not explicitly showing the format in the store? Heck ya! But none of that means they have any obligation to do any of that, only what WE perceive as their best commercial interest.

[Anak]

Kobo should first address existing Kobo kepub issues which can really mess up the output (of older kepubs). This is the main problem of kepubs.
Which is caused by making device features software dependent while device features should always be handled by the device (user agent) itself and should be independent from the software (kepub).

The user agent should decide if additional code should be parsed into the book before it is displayed on the screen. The file extension can be used for that (.kepub.epub: yes, parse additionalcode; .epub: don't parse additional code).

How to make/enable device features less software dependent?

1. Remove the Kobo Style Hacks from the kepub (software) and move it to the user agent (firmware).
   This makes every (future) change to Kobo Style Hacks backwards compatible and every kepub 'looks' the same regardless when it was converted to kepub. Less complains from customers about older, incorrectly displayed books.
   
   This is similar to Loading a custom CSS on kepub opening which is parsed in before the book is displayed on the screen. Kobo Style Hacks should be parsed by the user agent in a similar way (i.e. a second CSS which can carry the same name kobo.css) and remove the empty (and useless) kobo.css from the book itself. The same for the java script code.
   If I remember correctly, the code found in kobo.js is (was) also present in (older) firmware releases. Meaning there is no real need to put this in the book itself too.

   Example code:
   <!-- kobo-style -->
     <link href="css/kobo.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />
     <script src="js/kobo.js" type="text/javascript">
   </script>
     
   <style type="text/css">
   div#book-inner p, div#book-inner div { font-size: 1.0em; } a { color: black; } a:link, a:visited, a:hover, a:active { color: blue; } div#book-inner * { margin-top: 0 !important; margin-bottom: 0 !important;}
   </style>

2. Keep only the 'Kobo wrappers and position code' in the book.
   (But if it can be handled by the firmware then move it to the firmware.)
   
   • Wrapper
     

     <body>
       <div id="book-columns">
         <div id="book-inner">
     	 </div>
       </div>
     </body>

   • Positioning
     

     <span id="kobo.1.1">
     <span id="kobo.1.2">

3. But it starts by reconverting/updating all older kepubs to the latest Kobo Style Hacks version for a uniform ouput.
   All kepubs (in any language) that still contain older versions of Kobo Style Hacks code should be reconverted/updated to the latest code to guarantee a correct output on Kobo devices. That's where it all starts as customers paid for a book and should be displayed correctly.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Anak

All kepubs (in any language) that still contain older versions of Kobo Style Hacks code should be reconverted/updated to the latest code to guarantee a correct output on Kobo devices. That's where it all starts as customers paid for a book and should be displayed correctly.

Hmmm... I paid for a book and it has 72pt wide margins on each edge, paragraphs with the line height set to 1.4, chapter titles are displayed 40% of the way down the page and take about 20% of the page height, the "full page" images were not using SVG wrappers to fit them to full page and damn near every other sin of ebook layout that could be committed was committed.

I guess I should have accepted the publisher's idea of what an ebook should look like on the screen and not edited it.

BTW, this was an epub from Google Books.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Hmmm... I paid for a book and it has 72pt wide margins on each edge, paragraphs with the line height set to 1.4, chapter titles are displayed 40% of the way down the page and take about 20% of the page height, the "full page" images were not using SVG wrappers to fit them to full page and damn near every other sin of ebook layout that could be committed was committed.

I guess I should have accepted the publisher's idea of what an ebook should look like on the screen and not edited it.

BTW, this was an epub from Google Books.

What's the title of this eBook? I'd be curious to have a look. I can get a sample from B&N or I can try to get it from Overdrive.

[Anak]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Hmmm... I paid for a book and it has 72pt wide margins on each edge, paragraphs with the line height set to 1.4, chapter titles are displayed 40% of the way down the page and take about 20% of the page height, the "full page" images were not using SVG wrappers to fit them to full page and damn near every other sin of ebook layout that could be committed was committed.

I guess I should have accepted the publisher's idea of what an ebook should look like on the screen and not edited it.

BTW, this was an epub from Google Books.

True, there are lots of poorly formatted books around.
The problem here is that a kepub version does not fix this (completely). It only wraps some code around the existing code. If a book is poorly formatted it stays poorly formatted but it is possible that the added code 'unlocks' some of the device features.

BTW, that was not the point I wanted to make. The main point should be that device features should be handled by the device (firmware) instead of software (kepub). Backwards compatibility.

[Lynx-lynx]

I'm thinking that now that [deleted's] a Calibre plugin it means that the need for ADE (or in my case, Sony Reader for PC) is eliminated.

All one has to do is open Kobo Desktop Reader (so the kepub drops into it), import it Calibre via the [deleted] plugin, and then use Rev.Bob's plugin for tidyups.