Really basic template problem - "{title}"

[hnrsoftware]

I have read the pages in the help file covering templates (not understanding quite a bit of it) and am up to date with 1.47.0. I am trying to export/save my epubs in a format pretty much "Author - Title" - with series thrown in, but I can't get past the basic problem of "{title}". The metadata appears correct with title and title_sort "The Saint Bids Diamonds" and "Saint Bids Diamonds , The", but whether I use the default template or start modifying it using the template editor, the saved files show up with the "title_sort" rather than "title".

Since I can't find any references to this problem in the forum, I assume it is unique to me, rather than an actual bug, but I can't figure out where the problem might be. A variety of edited templates all produce similar results, and I can't find any variable named something like "{title_nosort}". "{authors}" is coming through correctly as the non-sort version, but "{title}" is stuck on putting the ", The" at the end.

Puzzled.... Howard

[hnrsoftware]

Continuing the oddness, "{series}" (="The Saint") wants to contribute "Saint, The" to the output file name. Both the title and series look fine in the metadata and the main tabular display.

As a somewhat accidental test, I didn't click the little arrow button after editing the title metadata, so the title_sort was now distinctly different than the title. The save file operation clearly used the title_sort rather than the title even though the template specified "{title}". Hmmmmmm.....

[theducks]

Preferences: Tweaks

Search on: Library order (the defaults that you see)
There are more than 1 setting

Read the description carefully to decide which you want to change.

Do you really want to file books under 'The, 'A ...

[hnrsoftware]

@theducks - thanks for the quick reply, but I can't see relevance of your comments. The order and displays are just fine, it is the saving to disk that is giving me problems.

With most of my ebooks, title sort with "The" at the end is not distracting, but with "The Saint", the "The" is almost an honorific like "Mr." or "Sir", rather than a throw-away article that gets in the way. Since there is a piece of data called "{title}", which is what I want, I just want to be able to use it.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by hnrsoftware

@theducks - thanks for the quick reply, but I can't see relevance of your comments. The order and displays are just fine, it is the saving to disk that is giving me problems.

With most of my ebooks, title sort with "The" at the end is not distracting, but with "The Saint", the "The" is almost an honorific like "Mr." or "Sir", rather than a throw-away article that gets in the way. Since there is a piece of data called "{title}", which is what I want, I just want to be able to use it.

You need to force Title sort in those case. Another one 'A B C Murders' gets to be B C Murders, A

As you have found: {title} is really {title_sort} There will always be exceptions that trip things up.

You might resort to the Template Program Mode to get this.
(I vaguely remember someone else recently had this issue. you might do some searches and see what turns up)

[hnrsoftware]

@theducks "As you have found: {title} is really {title_sort} There will always be exceptions that trip things up."

Oh.... that clears it up. As a programmer, I will just work with the file names externally to Calibre - I just assumed I was doing something stupid, and Calibre does so much right that I assumed it was my fault. Oh well....

[MiniMouse]

Originally Posted by hnrsoftware

@theducks - thanks for the quick reply, but I can't see relevance of your comments. The order and displays are just fine, it is the saving to disk that is giving me problems.

With most of my ebooks, title sort with "The" at the end is not distracting, but with "The Saint", the "The" is almost an honorific like "Mr." or "Sir", rather than a throw-away article that gets in the way. Since there is a piece of data called "{title}", which is what I want, I just want to be able to use it.

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for BUT under 'Preferences/Change calibre behaviour/Advanced/Tweaks' you can adjust what calibre makes out of the title and series.

Change 'Control sorting of title and series the library display'
The help-window explains that point as followed: If set to 'library_order', the title sort field will be used instead of the title. Unless you have manually edited the title sort field, leading articles such as The and A will be ignored. If set to 'strictly_alphabetic', the titles will be sorted as-is (sort by title instead of title sort). For example, with library_order, The Client will sort under 'C'. With strictly_alphabetic, the book will sort under 'T'.

And you also can change the point 'Control formatting of title and series when used in templates'
The help-window explains that point as followed: Control how title and series names are formatted when saving to disk/sending to device. The behavior depends on the field being processed. If processing title, then if this tweak is set to 'library_order', the title will be replaced with title_sort. If it is set to 'strictly_alphabetic', then the title will not be changed. If processing series, then if set to 'library_order', articles such as 'The' and 'An' will be moved to the end. If set to 'strictly_alphabetic', the series will be sent without change. For example, if the tweak is set to library_order, "The Lord of the Rings" will become "Lord of the Rings, The". If the tweak is set to strictly_alphabetic, it would remain "The Lord of the Rings". Note that the formatter function raw_field will return the base value for title and series regardless of the setting of this tweak.

I have changed the first point for my library to: title_series_sorting = 'strictly_alphabetic'
because I like it more when the title is not changed from what I enter. With this, when I save to disk, the title is saved like my library (even with not changing the second point). If you don't want to change the first point, well then maybe try only the second.

Hope that is what you are looking for.

Mini

[hnrsoftware]

@MiniMouse - Bingo! the second tweak was the one. That fixed both the title and the series for file saving. As usual, Calibre handled my problems before I knew I had problems, but it is so darned complicated, that the difficulty is finding the answer.

[MiniMouse]

Originally Posted by hnrsoftware

@MiniMouse - Bingo! the second tweak was the one. That fixed both the title and the series for file saving.

Glad I could help.

Originally Posted by hnrsoftware

As usual, Calibre handled my problems before I knew I had problems, but it is so darned complicated, that the difficulty is finding the answer.

I know that feeling! Mostly you can do everything with calibre that you want it to do, only you have to find out where first... what would we do without this forum to find our answers.

Mini

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by hnrsoftware

@MiniMouse - Bingo! the second tweak was the one. That fixed both the title and the series for file saving. As usual, Calibre handled my problems before I knew I had problems, but it is so darned complicated, that the difficulty is finding the answer.

@hnrsoftware - for future reference, the Preferences->Tweaks list has a search capability, it's easy to overlook.

A search for 'title' would have found the tweak you needed.

BR

[Ma'am-I-Am]

Originally Posted by hnrsoftware

@MiniMouse - Bingo! the second tweak was the one. That fixed both the title and the series for file saving. As usual, Calibre handled my problems before I knew I had problems, but it is so darned complicated, that the difficulty is finding the answer.

I'm so glad somebody said that. I feel like an idiot when I read the Calibre forum.