Pigs Get Fat, Hogs Get Slaughtered (Amazon v. Hachette)

[Sydney's Mom]

It seems that the Hachette books Amazon is discounting are doing better than the higher priced post-Agency books. For example, the new Patterson and Rowling are doing better than the latest King. I know books aren't fungible, but I am actually more concerned about the future of literature if we go back to Agency pricing. If there are fewer books being offered at prices people are willing to pay, the publishers are looking at making themselves irrelevant. Already, independent authors are eating their lunch. And even though I have been a voracious reader for my whole life, in the last five years I have developed hobbies that are eating into my reading time. Just reading all of the wonderful posts and links on this forum about the Amazon Hachette negotiations are cutting down on my reading time. I enjoyed the NYPL piece (watched the whole thing), but I think the panel might have been looking at the threat from the wrong perspective. Isn't the end game to get as many books into as many hands as possible? Get people hooked on reading, and then jack the price up?

It isn't just the shift from print to digital that is changing books. It is also the shift to universal accessibility. It used to be that books were about the only thing you could carry around and enjoy. A dvd player was too heavy, ran out of batteries, etc. Now, you can just watch a movie on your phone. And you don't even need to be connected to Wi-Fi to watch it. So, if I am sitting on the train, and I have a choice between the book or the movie, while I would usually go for the book first, if it is $14.99, I would rather rent the movie. It will take less effort on my part to watch the movie rather than read the book, and for me, renting a movie is an impulse purchase, while $15 is not.

Younger people on the train appear to be watching movies. Infrequent older riders appear to be watching movies. I don't see many people reading. I watch movies while I work-out. I watch movies while I knit. I like to surf the net. All these are things I either used to read during (had a book rest on my stairmaster), or didn't do, that are cutting into my reading time. I used to line up at the bookstore to get the latest book. I raced down the driveway to meet the ups guy to get the final HP. I really didn't think of the cost of books at that point. But now, I buy just about everything online, and I do more comparison shopping.

I applaud anyone who is interested in getting people to read more. But that is not what the publishers really are interested in. They just want to artificially prop up the price of books at a time when songs have gone from $4.00 (the cost of a 45) to $1. What is the saying? Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

[speakingtohe]

Interesting an well written post, addressing a lot of current topics.

I am the opposite, books are an impulse buy and I haven't rented a movie since the days of VCR.

$15 is high for me as well these days, but nothing to do with value. And nothing to do with lower priced or free books. I have a TBR list a mile long and most are available from the library. I buy books only as gesture to an author I particularly admire, new or old. I admit to being a bit flummoxed when I was thinking of buying a Harlen Coben book and it was $27.99.

I have bought thousands of books, in the past, and stopped when it was impossible to keep the ones I already had, never mind adding any. Price was always my last concern unless I was broke.

And low price is not an incentive to me to buy a book. Free is not an incentive either, although I have read many a free book I enjoyed. (library and gifts usually, but one fanfic.)


Of the hundreds of people I have discussed ebooks in person with, and prior to ebooks paper books, not one has mentioned price as far as I can recall. Many of these people do complain loudly and voraciously about the price of gas, food and even rent and utilities, so they are budget conscious.

I think that publishers are interested in getting people to read more. It is in their best interests. But like many of us they want to make money hand over fist and I don't see that as anything but business.

Books, songs and movies are all different. people will listen to a song happily many times a day, some will watch the same movie over and over. Lot of people reread but not usually more than once a year. The people buying them are different too.

If a person buys 10 songs a day, they can listen to all of them the same day. If a person buys 10 movies a day they will soon have a backlog unless they have almost nothing else to do. I am sure that there are people in the world who could read 70 books a week (10 books a day) but they are far and few between.

The potential market/income is different. If publishers though that people would suddenly start buying books at the same rate as songs if they were a dollar each, they would possibly consider it. I know several people who buy a at least 10 songs a week, week in, week out, and often more, and but I know no one who buys 10 books a week, every week, except for serious collectors of freebies.

Then again I don't know anyone who buys/rents 10 movies a week, but I suspect there are a fair amount. I also suspect that there are a lot of people like yourself who just find listening/watching more enjoyable these days and cheaper/easier to acquire. More power to you.

While lowering the cost of books to $1 is not a bad thing for me personally, neither is lowering the cost of T-bone steak or Havarti cheese to $1, and yes I shop shamelessly at Dollar stores unfortunately. I just don't see it as a model that publishers can adopt and pay authors, proofreaders etc. a living wage, any better than farmers would be able to feed those cows that provide the steak and the cheese.

Helen

[HarryT]

Books are already reasonably priced, to my mind. I'm happy to pay £5 ($8) for a well-written, properly-edited book. It's in nobody's long-term interests to try to force all books down to a $1 price tag; the end result of that would be an inevitable decline in standards.

[DiapDealer]

I'm OK with an $8-12 ebook price range.
And now I'm craving a toasted-cheese (havarti) sammich for lunch.

[conan50]

I hate to say it as a book lover, but books are losing value for many people. I see a similar thing happening with music. With music you have Spotify, Pandora, iHeart, Songza, and numerous other free and low cost music options. It is is getting harder to justify spending $10 or more for each album when there is so much music available in so many ways that don't involve paying $10 for a single album, and you can subscribe to music services with unlimited music for the cost of one album a month.
With books, especially if you have an ereader, it is hard to keep up with the free ebooks, and low cost ebooks ($.99-$2.99 mostly) and the option to get free ebooks from online libraries, and thousands of public domain classic ebooks. And as the OP says, too many other thing vying for our time and attention.
I almost never spend over $10 for an ebook now. And I have hundreds of ebooks already in my library. While publishers try to live in the past. Walmart and other retailers have cut the legs out from under them with discount pricing on print books, and Amazon lets new authors show their wares for free, and sell at low prices. I honestly believe traditional publishing is all but dead, only they don't know it yet. Maybe 5 years ago they could have stopped the bleeding, or slowed it, by recognizing the new reality. But I think it is too late for them now, and they will be a little corner business, if they survive at all, that serves only a few who insist on hardbacks in their book collections.

[Sydney's Mom]

Just want to make sure no one thinks I was advocating $1 for a book. NEVER! But neither am I advocating $15. I think $8-10 (which was unfortunately where paperbacks were going when I stopped buying them) is appropriate, seeing as I cannot lend the book or donate it.

[crossi]

It depends. I'll spend more for non-fiction than for a novel or the romance novellas. And if I'm rebuying a book I already have, $7 is really to much esp if that author has 30 or 40 that I'd like to rebuy. Of course new books might end up being a complete waste of money. I only kept about 1 in 10 when I was buying paper, the rest were wasted money, so every $7 on a new book is a gamble. And it depends on how many already bought unread books I have, currently about 30. And how many are on my wish list, over 400 now. If I have a large backlog I'm much less willing to put down money for any book unless it's too good a bargain to pass up. I only have so much money, and time. If they want either from me the publishers are going to have to compete for it.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by conan50

I hate to say it as a book lover, but books are losing value for many people. I see a similar thing happening with music.

If something is digital, many people immediately seem to think that it has to be very cheap or even for free. They were happy paying €50 for a retail game or €10 for a paperback book in 2000, but they balk at paying €45 for a digitally distributed game or €7 for an ebook.

"It's too expensive."

Hell no. It's gotten cheaper, even though prices have been inflated greatly in the last 15 years, making it cheaper still.

But honestly, I see the value degradation in my own library. Before 2011, when I got my Touch (I tried a Cybook in 2007, but the ebook market was too young then, at least for me), I would consider each book carefully, especially if it was the first in a (long) series. Price and required space caused me to be selective.

Now? Using Kobo codes, I buy entire series on a whim because they look good and get good reviews, and I download classics for free or next to nothing (50+ Delphi books here). I have almost 800 books in my library now, counting the Delphi's as one book each, while they can contain 15 or 20 novels.

15 years ago, such a library would have cost me at least €8.000, and an entire room. Now, I'd be very surprised if I spent more than €800 (10%). I think it would be closer to €500. Also, it costs me 5GB on a 1000GB disk (0.5%), and no physical space.

Nowadays, a book (e-book) is just a cheap consumable, even more so than the shabbiest paperback ever was. Buying e-books is so fast and cheap that getting and returning books at the library for free is actually more expensive in transportation costs. For the cost of one trip to and back from the library to go and get the paper book (if they have it), I can BUY the e-book... twice.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by crossi

It depends. I'll spend more for non-fiction than for a novel or the romance novellas. And if I'm rebuying a book I already have, $7 is really to much esp if that author has 30 or 40 that I'd like to rebuy. Of course new books might end up being a complete waste of money. I only kept about 1 in 10 when I was buying paper, the rest were wasted money, so every $7 on a new book is a gamble. And it depends on how many already bought unread books I have, currently about 30. And how many are on my wish list, over 400 now. If I have a large backlog I'm much less willing to put down money for any book unless it's too good a bargain to pass up. I only have so much money, and time. If they want either from me the publishers are going to have to compete for it.

I am the opposite. If I like an author enough to want to read all of their books, well that makes them worth more than average, not less. As I said before, I will be more likely to plunk down larger sums for books by authors I have enjoyed hugely in the past. Just sort of a weird symbolic thing as I can usually get the book from the library and I am patient enough to do that.

Still I see your point. 40 x $10 is serious dent in the budget for most of us.

This is an area where sometimes ebooks shine though. Omnibus or multiple book deals.

Helen

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

If something is digital, many people immediately seem to think that it has to be very cheap or even for free. They were happy paying €50 for a retail game or €10 for a paperback book in 2000, but they balk at paying €45 for a digitally distributed game or €7 for an ebook.

"It's too expensive."

Hell no. It's gotten cheaper, even though prices have been inflated greatly in the last 15 years, making it cheaper still.

Well as consumables go they are cheaper where I am than a lot things. I just bought a quart of milk for $5.99. A cheese burger and fries is $14.99 in the only restaurant in town and it is super busy.

And in the real world where I spend the winter, I am always amazed at how many people I know who are far from affluent who spend $10+ a day at Starbucks. Probably cuts way into their ebook budget

But honestly, I see the value degradation in my own library. Before 2011, when I got my Touch (I tried a Cybook in 2007, but the ebook market was too young then, at least for me), I would consider each book carefully, especially if it was the first in a (long) series. Price and required space caused me to be selective.

Now? Using Kobo codes, I buy entire series on a whim because they look good and get good reviews, and I download classics for free or next to nothing (50+ Delphi books here). I have almost 800 books in my library now, counting the Delphi's as one book each, while they can contain 15 or 20 novels.

15 years ago, such a library would have cost me at least €8.000, and an entire room. Now, I'd be very surprised if I spent more than €800 (10%). I think it would be closer to €500. Also, it costs me 5GB on a 1000GB disk (0.5%), and no physical space.

Nowadays, a book (e-book) is just a cheap consumable, even more so than the shabbiest paperback ever was. Buying e-books is so fast and cheap that getting and returning books at the library for free is actually more expensive in transportation costs. For the cost of one trip to and back from the library to go and get the paper book (if they have it), I can BUY the e-book... twice.

For me to go to a library that has books I haven't read, is an $80 gas bill, or if I went on the bus, $65 and a $300 hotel bill as the bus runs twice a week.

eBooks are ridiculously cheap by comparison.

Four years ago I would buy a lot of books in the winter and pay $100 or more to ship them, just so I would have books to read. Didn't resent that or anything, it was just what it cost. Now if I buy them I don't have to ship them and I can get a pretty good selection perfectly legally from my big city library.

Helen

[crossi]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I am the opposite. If I like an author enough to want to read all of their books, well that makes them worth more than average, not less. As I said before, I will be more likely to plunk down larger sums for books by authors I have enjoyed hugely in the past. Just sort of a weird symbolic thing as I can usually get the book from the library and I am patient enough to do that.

Still I see your point. 40 x $10 is serious dent in the budget for most of us.

This is an area where sometimes ebooks shine though. Omnibus or multiple book deals.

Helen

I'm replacing a lot of my paper library. If I already own the book there is only the space savings to cause me to buy the ebook. And replacing a single paperback isn't much help, to replace a whole box of books takes serious cash.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Buying e-books is so fast and cheap that getting and returning books at the library for free is actually more expensive in transportation costs. For the cost of one trip to and back from the library to go and get the paper book (if they have it), I can BUY the e-book... twice.

It depends on your situation. Where I go to school, it is across the street and I can walk there. It is closer than the dorm is.

Then too there is OverDrive. You can check out books from the same computer or ereader that you can buy them from, with just as little hassle (except for waitlists).