I'm "Unsatisfied with all of them"

[applewine]

As the sub-forum subject line says post here if you are "unsatisfied with all of them", and I am.

I want an e-ink reader which can connect directly to overdrive, and as far as I know there isn't one. This would allow me to use the e-reader to borrow and return books without using a computer.

The best physical design e-reader I like are no doubt the e-ink readers due to their light weight, not so much the "clarity" that people talk about with the e-ink technology, the feather light hold-ability is much more valuable to comfort.

Of the e-ink readers I like the Nooks the best. The Nook Simple Touch was the best with its large sides for holding and thick design with a curved back for your fingers. The mentality to create the thinnest and narrowest edge e-reader is some kind of thoughtless endeavor to create a technological marvel without any thought to the real contributors to the user-experience.

A smart-phone like the iPhone can be thin because you can wrap your palm around the whole thing, but larger devices like e-ink need to be thick so you can easily hold with one hand and the edges need to be wide, not narrow.

So, what do I suggest?

Overdrive should make an e-ink reader! Or, somebody should make one that works with their service for that purpose. (and it should have the physical design factors I mentioned. It would sad if they made it thin and narrow; failure again)

None of the current e-ink readers can access overdrive libraries directly.

Your overdrive e-ink reader would allow you to add all the overdrive libraries you belong to and read and mange books from there directly.

The second part of this is on the content side. Overdrive should facilitate businesses creating paid membership libraries!

Now you could have niche libraries by interest or genre! You could have general libraries or any mix in-between. Imagine a library you could belong to that specialized in science fiction, non-fiction history or anything any number of interests or mixes tailored to your preferences.

These overdrive franchise libraries could become very popular. So far there are only a dozen or so overdrive pay membership libraries which are just public libraries that sell out of state membership.

The thing holding paid membership libraries back is the lack of niche selection. Chances are there are a few types of books a person likes to read a belonging to a library with lots of books tailored to those interest would fit the demand of a customer much better than the general-purpose spotty selection you see with the public libraries today. Or, who knows, maybe general-purpose libraries could add much larger selections with the paid membership revenue and the right price.

Your thoughts? I know I'm right.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by applewine

I want an e-ink reader which can connect directly to overdrive, and as far as I know there isn't one.

The Sony T1, T2 & T3 can connect directly to OverDrive libraries.

Overdrive should make an e-ink reader! Or, somebody should make one that works with their service for that purpose. (and it should have the physical design factors I mentioned. It would sad if they made it thin and narrow; failure again)

They need to team with another mfg to add the functionality the Sony's had. Maybe Kobo. As to the thick/thin, wide/narrow bezel debate you'll get opinions that run the gambit. If they do their own they also have to invest in support infrastructure for it as well which may be too expensive for a device if it's not from a retailer since many folks expect current Kindle like prices on devices, which are sold at or near cost.

None of the current e-ink readers can access overdrive libraries directly.

The T3 is a current model. Unfortunately Sony is basically out of the device market now.

The second part of this is on the content side. Overdrive should facilitate businesses creating paid membership libraries!

They need the publishers on board for this. Many are barely on board with the current model.

These overdrive franchise libraries could become very popular.

No doubt, but I don't think it will fly with the big publishers. Also, can such a service make money as a private business while maintaining enough copies of popular titles at the elevated costs/limited checkouts involved with library titles.

So far there are only a dozen or so overdrive pay membership libraries which are just public libraries that sell out of state membership.

There used to be more, but my understanding is that the publishers got involved and now the selection available to those libraries is reduced when compared to what other libraries can get access too.

[applewine]

I heard about the Sony's, but as you said the hardware isn't as available. I also heard they shutdown the sony bookstore, but maybe that isn't a problem. The real problem is a lack of overdrive libraries and selection.

As far as the paid libraries I didn't realize the publishers were opposed to selling books to libraries. The only reason they sell to libraries is because they don't buy a lot of books now? The reasoning being that if a library bought a lot of books then the publishers would sell fewer total books?

Is there anything stopping me from just buying printed books and starting a for-profit library? Is there anything stopping the same thing with e-books? Is there some kind of terms of sale when you buy an e-book that says you can't put it in a shared library? I'm talking about a direct-sale from a publisher, not from a reseller like kindle or Barnes and Noble which is not really ownership, but a special copy in their library reserved for you all the time.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by applewine

I heard about the Sony's, but as you said the hardware isn't as available. I also heard they shutdown the sony bookstore, but maybe that isn't a problem. The real problem is a lack of overdrive libraries and selection.

Sony eReaders are available, look for resellers or refurbished models.

Lack of libraries? I guess it depends where you are. My local library has Overdrive and plenty of ebooks to borrow.

As far as the paid libraries I didn't realize the publishers were opposed to selling books to libraries. The only reason they sell to libraries is because they don't buy a lot of books now? The reasoning being that if a library bought a lot of books then the publishers would sell fewer total books?

For the last few years only two big publishers were selling ebooks to Overdrive. Two of the other publishers decided to dip a toe back into the water this year with some of their books, with restrictions on how Overdrive can loan the books, of course.

The reasoning, if you can call it that, seems to be fear of piracy or lack of friction (easy access to books) according to the publishers. No data or proof that piracy or ease of borrowing impacts sales exists, but it's the bogeyman the publishers chose.

Is there anything stopping me from just buying printed books and starting a for-profit library? Is there anything stopping the same thing with e-books? Is there some kind of terms of sale when you buy an e-book that says you can't put it in a shared library? I'm talking about a direct-sale from a publisher, not from a reseller like kindle or Barnes and Noble which is not really ownership, but a special copy in their library reserved for you all the time.

Copyright prevents any unauthorized use of books, e or otherwise. Direct sale from a publisher is no different from purchasing from Amazon or another bookstore as far as rights go.

Publishers/authors dictate what is allowed and what isn't. For instance they often allow one instance of loaning a book via Amazon or Nook's proprietary sharing system (within the US). They give Overdrive specific permission to loan the books, with whatever restrictions they deem necessary (ie. 26 loans maximum then the license expires and the library has to stop loaning the ebook and buy another copy to loan out).

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Synamon

Sony eReaders are available, look for resellers or refurbished models.

Yep. I bought my refurbished T2 for $50 at TigerDirect. And they're still selling them for that. (I assume, at some point, they'll run out.)

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by applewine

I heard about the Sony's, but as you said the hardware isn't as available. I also heard they shutdown the sony bookstore, but maybe that isn't a problem. The real problem is a lack of overdrive libraries and selection.

The hardware is available through several outlets, there just won't likely be any new models. The bookstore did shut down, but peoples purchases were transferred to Kobo and the firmware will be updated (already has?) to link to the Kobo store. The ability to checkout and download books from OD still works fine though.

As for lack of OD selection it depends on what you read and on your specific library. My library has around 79,000 titles and is always adding new stuff and has a pretty well rounded selection. Could be better, or course but having to pay Random House 3-4 times the retail cost of a book and having to re-buy HarperCollins books after 21 checkouts does curb some acquisition.

[susan_cassidy]

Have you tried accessing Overdrive from the Kindle's experimental browser? I don't know if it would work or not. It depends on how "fancy" the site is.

Also, when publishers sell to libraries, they have to pay much more for the book, because of the multiple potential users of the books. I doubt you could legally start a library with single copy purchased books.

And. to AnemicOak: it's "run the gamut", not "run the gambit".

[BookCat]

If you want to use a paid e library, try Amazon Prime. You'll need some kind of kindle, I recommend the paperwhite 2, which I love; then you pay a subscription to Amazon Prime which allows you all sorts of goodies, such as borrowing ebooks. I don't use it myself, prefering to read public domain books and those legally given free - Amazon have lots of those too.

As for the form factor: just buy your ereader a nice, thick cover which is more comfortable to hold than the bare reader.

Many of your suggestions are unfeasible or illegal.

You seem to want to download books without the use of a pc. Most ereaders now have wifi, some have 3g capability. For the wifi, you'll need a home internet connection with wifi or a nearby hotspot. 3g just works like a mobile phone. Personally, I prefer to download books using a wired network, then transfering via my pc's usb.
You probably mean a wifi download?

[susan_cassidy]

Buying Amazon Prime just for the Kindle Owner's Lending Library is not cost effective. Most of the books in it are 1.99 - 3.99 each, and you only get 12 a year. 12 x 4 = 48, not 99/year. Just buy the books - it would be cheaper.

[BookCat]

Good point, but the OP didn't specify whether he wanted the paid library to be cost effective or not.

[applewine]

So when I buy a paper book there are terms that say I can't put it in a shared library? When libraries buy printed books do they buy copies with special terms and conditions that cost more?

The way e-books are right now is you pay by the titles you "borrow" and belonging to such a library like Amazon or Barnes and Noble costs almost as much as if you bought all the books you borrowed.

The way it works is that Amazon has a library and when you want to read a book you "buy" a virtual copy that will sit in their library always waiting for you. You can read that book whenever you want as long as that library exists. However, if you just bought that book instead and put it in your personal library it would have cost you only a little more, or maybe even less if you get a used copy.

You either accept the payment model for the shared libraries which is based on the number of books you check out, or you reject that idea and would rather just buy the book.

If you think about it what amazon e-books are is just a library membership with fees based on the specific books you check out rather than a flat rate.

The "problem" (if it is one) is that this is in-between two models. With music services like Rdio you can listen to whatever you want for a flat rate. They don't have different prices for different songs and charge fees based on individual titles. The upside is the low price and unlimited listening and the downside is the moment you stop paying you are no longer a member of their library.

With Amazon and Barnes and Noble you are always a member as long as the library exists, or as long as you don't do something that makes them kick you out.

You could run the exact same model with e-book libraries like Amazon and Barnes and Noble using paper books. If you think of it like that you will see what the model is really doing.

[susan_cassidy]

"So when I buy a paper book there are terms that say I can't put it in a shared library? When libraries buy printed books do they buy copies with special terms and conditions that cost more?"
Yes. Libraries buy special copies of books.

[applewine]

I had no idea. So what happens when you donate a personal book to a library? Do they contact the publisher and pay some kind of extra fee and ask for a copy of the terms and conditions and sign that?

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by applewine

I had no idea. So what happens when you donate a personal book to a library? Do they contact the publisher and pay some kind of extra fee and ask for a copy of the terms and conditions and sign that?

I was once told by a library that they sell the donated books and use the money raised to buy "library" books from the publishers.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by applewine

So when I buy a paper book there are terms that say I can't put it in a shared library? When libraries buy printed books do they buy copies with special terms and conditions that cost more?

The way e-books are right now is you pay by the titles you "borrow" and belonging to such a library like Amazon or Barnes and Noble costs almost as much as if you bought all the books you borrowed.

The way it works is that Amazon has a library and when you want to read a book you "buy" a virtual copy that will sit in their library always waiting for you. You can read that book whenever you want as long as that library exists. However, if you just bought that book instead and put it in your personal library it would have cost you only a little more, or maybe even less if you get a used copy.

You either accept the payment model for the shared libraries which is based on the number of books you check out, or you reject that idea and would rather just buy the book.

If you think about it what amazon e-books are is just a library membership with fees based on the specific books you check out rather than a flat rate.

The "problem" (if it is one) is that this is in-between two models. With music services like Rdio you can listen to whatever you want for a flat rate. They don't have different prices for different songs and charge fees based on individual titles. The upside is the low price and unlimited listening and the downside is the moment you stop paying you are no longer a member of their library.

With Amazon and Barnes and Noble you are always a member as long as the library exists, or as long as you don't do something that makes them kick you out.

You could run the exact same model with e-book libraries like Amazon and Barnes and Noble using paper books. If you think of it like that you will see what the model is really doing.

Except your imaginary Amazon and Barnes and Noble "libraries" do allow you to download a copy of the ebook you bought under license and you can keep it forever, just like a paper book you buy. DRM complicates things somewhat, but can be avoided or handled. They are not libraries, the book you bought and downloaded doesn't expire, it doesn't need to be returned, if you stop buying books from them you don't lose the copy you bought. They are book stores. Say it with me, book ssstorrresss.

If you want a subscription service like Rdio, join Scribd or Oyster or one of the other services that charge a monthly fee for unlimited access to their library of ebooks.