Here's Why Studio Musicians Avoid Android Tablets (Even if They Like to Read)

[Prestidigitweeze]

As much as I love the Nexus 7.2's price and form factor, I'll probably have to buy an iPad instead. Here's why:

Developer Explains Why Android Sucks for Some Audio Apps

For musicians, 500 ms of latency is unacceptable. And in terms of writing music, iOS is still far more evolved than Android and remains the de facto standard for tablets (unless/until Windows enters the pro music tablet ring).

We tend to think of Sony as a rather controlling company, so I'd assumed that that was why they'd resisted Android at first. But since Sony is invested in music as well as personal electronics, perhaps they were nonplussed by its implementation of pro media options until they had no choice but to use it.

That said, after all my ogling of Android tablets and disenchantment with Apple, it looks as though my next purchase will be an iPad. If I pick up an N7.2, it will be as a second tablet specifically for doing public readings.

Annoying, but there it is.

[SeaKing]

Prestidigitweeze.

My question is do you notice a problem? That would be more convincing to me than anonymous sources on both sides of the argument that are not making clear arguments.

and 1/2 second delay for What????

Is that the delay between the lips and the words?

The delay from when the stick strikes the head, to us in the front row hearing the drum?

I would think it would be like sitting in the far corner of the Colosseum and watching the basketball hit the floor, and then hearing the sound.

[petrucci]

The 1/2 second delay is between the time the audio signal enters the computer and the time it is processed. If you are trying to work with these things in real time it is a problem.

[caleb72]

500ms - ouch!

Once I saw that Win8 was going to be device agnostic I started putting all of my eggs in that basket from a music point of view as I use Windows on my desktop. I thought I was much more likely to get synergies between what I use now and what I would use on that platform than if I started to look at a platform like Android.

I was always more interested in tablets as sequence and control devices rather than audio devices though.

[caleb72]

Prestidigitweeze - don't bin your Nexus yet. Have a look at this article:

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...exus-7-review/

According to this, Google has managed to get an audio latency of 12ms on Jellybean. Have a look to see if this is you. 12ms is a massive chunk better than 500ms. Of course how they got it and under what conditions might be interesting to explore. On the other hand, your article was pretty old - it pre-dated later Android 4.0+ devices I think yes?

EDIT: Actually my article wasn't that much more recent (confused). Anyway - have a read and see if it adds any hope to the lost cause.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Caleb:

Your choosing Win8 is exactly what I'd do if the software and development were there for tablets. It might be getting there, and perhaps it will be there soon, but until it does, I and other musicians I know and/or work are better off sticking with iPads.

I'm hopeful, too, of course. An unlocked system is a more flexible system -- Sony's pro minidisc recorders' total failure in '90s (in the pro market) being the ultimate example of that. Without pointless restrictions on recording, minidisc could have been the next standard after DAT instead of another dead end years before portable hard disc recording.

You can also argue that a full-blown Windows tablet can run any Windows program and therefore any Windows music program. I'd argue that a professional musician wants to see that idea not only demonstrated in the practical sense but also widely adopted for the sake of client compatibility.

Additionally:

I've owned and still own a several Android devices and have experimented with with creating original music on nearly all of them. At best, the results are glitchy and undependable; at worst, multiple-mixed I/O is unsupported and so are the majority of cross-platform apps on macs and PCs. So even if Jellybean gets the latency down consistently (rather than in a best-case scenario), there are still reasons not to try to embrace Android for music just yet.

Right now, the prospect is a bit like composing 8-bit chiptunes on an original Nintendo gameboy: Delightfully unexpected but disastrously unpredictable. At a certain point, the fun of arriving at surprising choices is overshadowed by the amount of data lost or time spent attempting to record some part or section I intended.

Here's the part of the Synthtopia article that remains pertinent whether the latency was fixed or not:

The new Android OS offers a lot to be excited about. But, at least for now, musicians interested in the Android platform need to consider not just the operating system, but the performance of specific hardware + software implementations.

I'll have a look at Gearsluts as well to see what people's experience with Android has been.

Honestly, though -- if you knew what happens when I so much as introduce the subject of Android among working musicians I know, you'd wonder why I'm thinking about this at all! The other day, a friend who does soundtracks in his studio in LA gave me a look that suggested he wondered if he should ever take me seriously again! He gives me the same look when I talk about using a weighted-key Casio controller instead of a Nord Stage -- he's the only person I know who still uses a Synclavier.

Some friends ask why I'd bother trying to write music on a tablet at all when portable laptops are better suited to the task. They don't want to hear it when I suggest that a tablet can be more convenient.

SeaKing:

The delay has a direct effect on DAWs and music processing and composing. Trust me when I say that professional users would find it unacceptable.

This isn't a thread about which OS is cooler -- we know the answer to that is Android. It's a question about which is ultimately most usable for musicians at the moment.

Perhaps this will change -- but in order for it to change, Google needs to make pro audio a priority, as Apple and Microsoft have.

[toddos]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Caleb:

Your choosing Win8 is exactly what I'd do if the software and development were there for tablets. It might be getting there, and perhaps it will be soon, but until it does, I and other musicians I know and/or work are better off sticking with iPads.

Have you considered a Surface Pro? It's a real PC running full Win 8 but in a tablet form factor, and the upcoming Surface Pro 2 has even better battery life. Also, the Music Cover seems like it could be useful for some types of music creation (it seems more oriented towards DJs).

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by toddos

Have you considered a Surface Pro? It's a real PC running full Win 8 but in a tablet form factor, and the upcoming Surface Pro 2 has even better battery life. Also, the Music Cover seems like it could be useful for some types of music creation (it seems more oriented towards DJs).

In fact I've been watching Surface Pro very closely. If Microsoft can attract professional musicians and pro music software/hardware to that platform, I'll be especially interested and might even buy one to try out.

Music Cover looks a tad like a dorkier Ableton Push or NI Maschine control surface. It appears to be great news for DJs who love windows -- and I happen to ventricle a lot of DJ-created music -- but I myself come from an older-than-old-skool composer's background -- I actually like looking at sheet music as well as track information. Professionally, I go so far back that I was actually in a a studio called Intergalactic with Afrika Bambataa when I first moved to NYC. I was there decades later, mind, but it was the same studio in which "Planet Rock" was recorded.

I create nearly all of my music electronically (though I've been known to write for string sections and chamber music groups), but most of it still seems to start with a weighted keyboard and staff lines.

[5thWiggle]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

<snip> Perhaps this will change -- but in order for it to change, Google needs to make pro audio a priority, as Apple and Microsoft have.

For this to happen, Google would have to change to a real-time OS. I don't know why they didn't use RTLinux instead of Linux, unless it was licensing issues or perhaps RTLinux is incompatible with the Dalvik VM. iOS is a real-time OS (via the Darwin Kernel) as is Blackberry (uses QNX) and Windows CE. Even PalmOS was real-time.

[Istvan diVega]

How does a real-time OS differ from a non-real-time one? In 25 years of computing that's not a distinction I've ever come across.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Istvan diVega

How does a real-time OS differ from a non-real-time one? In 25 years of computing that's not a distinction I've ever come across.

A real-time operating system (RTOS) is an o/s which has a guaranteed response time for performing any given task (typically processing data); something which is very necessary for o/s's used in embedded systems, for example. Windows CE is an RTOS; desktop Windows is not.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

In fact I've been watching Surface Pro very closely. If Microsoft can attract professional musicians and pro music software/hardware to that platform, I'll be especially interested and might even buy one to try out.

I create nearly all of my music electronically (though I've been known to write for string sections and chamber music groups), but most of it still seems to start with a weighted keyboard and staff lines.

You do realize that any software that can run on a Windows laptop or desktop can also run on a Surface Pro, right? There is no special "platform" distinction in terms of either software or hardware. If it runs on Windows on the desktop, it will run on the Surface Pro.

Shari

[5thWiggle]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system

They are used a lot in embedded systems for use in industry where you need a predictable (and short) response time. An example off the top of my head is a vision system for inspecting product for defects. Other uses are in cars (Toyota and GM cars run on QNX), medical devices and nuclear plants.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by shalym

You do realize that any software that can run on a Windows laptop or desktop can also run on a Surface Pro, right? There is no special "platform" distinction in terms of either software or hardware. If it runs on Windows on the desktop, it will run on the Surface Pro.

Software could still need to be reengineered to work well with a touchscreen interface and a small screen, though. Just running may not be enough.

Graham

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by shalym

You do realize that any software that can run on a Windows laptop or desktop can also run on a Surface Pro, right? There is no special "platform" distinction in terms of either software or hardware. If it runs on Windows on the desktop, it will run on the Surface Pro.

Shari

You seemed to have missed the post in which I said this (no matter; I'm wordy):

You can also argue that a full-blown Windows tablet can run any Windows program and therefore any Windows music program. I'd argue that a professional musician wants to see that idea not only demonstrated in the practical sense but also widely adopted for the sake of client compatibility.

The beauty of Windows conceptually is the opposite of iOS: an OS that can run without incident on virtually any compatible box. The particular trick with music involves real-time performance with a number of devices surrounding the box -- not merely decently but as perfectly as possible. I know hilariously successful musicians who are still clinging to ancient rigs because trial and error upon error has made them superstitious: they're afraid to use anything else because that system works.