Newbie Needs Help

[RickAltman]

I am working on my second book conversion from a set of HTML files to MOBI, via Calibre, and clearly there is a critical part of this that I don't understand. Here is what I have done:

1. Created a set of HTML files, a CSS file, and a toc file.

2. Using the toc file, created a new book in Calibre.

3. Converted the book and then used the Edit Book command to make changes, both textually and stylistically. I also made substantial changes to the TOC.

4. I saved the changes and returned to the main screen that shows my book as the open file.

5. I use the Save to Disk or the Save to Device command to export my work.

However, none of the changes that I made in my editing session are reflected in the output. If I return to the editing window, my changes are all there, and if I double-click the file on the main screen to open the e-book viewer, all of my changes are there. But when I actually send the book out to my device, NONE of my changes are there.

I'm doing something wrong...

[eschwartz]

DO you by any chance have an ORIGINAL_EPUB format? If so -- that will be used as the source for any EPUB ==> MOBI conversions.

And it hasn't been edited.

Delete it if it exists, then reconvert.


EDIT: Warning!!! Uncontrollable massive offtopic ahead! You can ignore pretty much anything that follows, up until and including the point at which you add something actually useful to the conversation.

Sorry about that.

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

DO you by any chance have an ORIGINAL_EPUB format? If so -- that will be used as the source for any EPUB ==> MOBI conversions.

.

i really wish kovid would grant us control over that option but he's adamant that it "ain't gonna happen"
I want to be able to convert (current/latest) epub to mobi without having to delete original-epub.
I still don't get whey it's unreasonable to want keep - in ONE library -all of original-epub ( my unedited source,) AND .epub (my current edited copy), AND be able to send the latter to kindle ( via an on the fly conversion) withough having to use separate libraries /other arcane workarounds

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by cybmole

i really wish kovid would grant us control over that option but he's adamant that it "ain't gonna happen"
I want to be able to convert (current/latest) epub to mobi without having to delete original-epub.
I still don't get whey it's unreasonable to want keep - in ONE library -all of original-epub ( my unedited source,) AND .epub (my current edited copy), AND be able to send the latter to kindle ( via an on the fly conversion) withough having to use separate libraries /other arcane workarounds

ORIGINAL_EPUB is not meant for archival purposes. It is meant as backup to revert conversions gone horribly wrong.

I am sure Kovid has already explained this.

It is unreasonable to expect a feature to be changed for the sake of something it was never intended to be.

You properly want an ebook versioning program. calibre is not that, and I don't think Kovid cares in the slightest about making it one. It certainly isn't worth HIS time.

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

ORIGINAL_EPUB is not meant for archival purposes. It is meant as backup to revert conversions gone horribly wrong.

I am sure Kovid has already explained this.

It is unreasonable to expect a feature to be changed for the sake of something it was never intended to be.

You properly want an ebook versioning program. calibre is not that, and I don't think Kovid cares in the slightest about making it one. It certainly isn't worth HIS time.

yes he has explained that, but what's wrong with wanting a backup of my epub conversion AND a conversion ( to mobi ) of my current epub version.
I don't want or need another library/ another versioning program, I just want the ability to convert a from a current format (epub) into another format (mobi) and not be forced to always convert from the whatever-you-want-to-call-it.epub file

debating whether to call it a backup or an archive or some other name misses the point.

( AFAIK, when Kovid first introduced the feature, it was called a backup. I am fine with that.)

The design as is makes is not possible to use calibre as a single library which can serve current versions to both epub and mobi readers, unless we agree to turn off the backup to revert conversions gone horribly wrong
and since it is not possible to edit mobi directly, it makes sense to edit in epub & then want to send edited epub ( as mobi) to kindle AND still be able to fall back to original-epub if things go horribly wrong somewhere in that sequence . where's the illogic in wanting that feature.

All the workarounds are horrid. I need to either devise an incremental backup & restore workflow for writing out original_epubs to somewhere else, & re-importing them as needed. or I have to use an additional calibre library and always go copy epub in library 1 to epub in library 2 ( copy single format only, leave original_epub behind ) then convert epub in library 2 to mobi then send that to kindle i.e. i have to operate an epub+original library for my epub reader(s) AND an epub+ mobi library for any Kindles - crazy.
In both cases, I then have to redo my calibre library backup processes to take care of needing backups of all this extra stuff.

[eschwartz]

You are supposed to confirm that the converted EPUB did not go horribly wrong, and then delete it. The one and only reason for the ORIGINAL_EPUB to exist is so the conversion itself doesn't wipe out the input file.

Kovid has stated his views on the matter -- that if your new EPUB is good enough to sideload and convert from, then you have no need for the ORIGINAL_EPUB anymore. calibre doesn't care about it, and calibre doesn't want to care about it. YOu have already agreed that the new version is good.

P.S. An ORIGINAL_EPUB would only be created if you did an EPUB-to_EPUB conversion, or Polish Book, not when you open the editor.
Polish does not typically cause massive changes that need to be reverted, and if you edit the book, then why would you also convert it to itself?

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

P.S. An ORIGINAL_EPUB would only be created if you did an EPUB-to_EPUB conversion, or Polish Book, not when you open the editor.

One could argue (but I'm not) that it should, would have thought the chances of doing irrecoverable harm with an epub editor exceeds that of a like to like conversion or polish (yes I know the editor has save as, checkpoint etc).

@cybmole - I think you have to accept that the ORIGINAL_XXXX file regime is not going to be re-purposed or multi-purposed to do as you wish it do.

I know someone who had a similar wish, she does the following - copy the ORIGINAL_EPUB file to the desktop (by opening the book folder and dragging it there), rename it to SAVE_EPUB, drop that into calibre book list, and then delete the ORIGINAL_EPUB. I'm not sure, but I think she may have to Merge the book that gets created with the SAVE_EPUB into the book with the ORIGINAL_EPUB before she deletes the latter - that could be avoided if non book formats could be dropped onto the Book Details panel.

BR

[cybmole]

OK - given that I, but no one else, has a desire to hang on to original_epub files, how do I do I get them archived from calibre without any changes being made: if I use send to device/ save to disc then I assume that calibre does what it does with real formats i.e. updates the metadata as part of the send/save process.

SO how to I select & archive/backup what is there at the moment without any changes being made. do I have to manually copy the library then extract only those file types. I'd ideally want to archive only those original.xxx files that meet certain other criteria i.e. have certain tags sets.

can I select & do a bulk copy to library for only this format operation in calibre, then take that copied library away to archive via windows backup operations?

@eschwartz -
flogging the deal horse one more time, I still see an illogic in calibre doesn't care about it, and calibre doesn't want to care about it when combined with calibre insists on re-using it for conversion to any other format.
Let me walk you thouhg a scenario: If I workflow: epub into library, epub to epub convert to apply standardized extra css, edit book as need in calibre or sigil - (so far so good ) then I proceeed with delete origianal-epub ( as you + Kovid are advocaring) , so that I can now convert (current) epub to mobi for old kindle, but then find that the mobi convert is no good after all e.g. because of some unsupported feature; I then have a need to go back to the beginning and start over - but i can't m unless I kept a copy of the true origianl

[theducks]

Cybe

Use the OS 'Search' :Filenames that contain Original_EPUB (If you only have EPUB) on the Library folder: then copy the results to an Archive. The disadvantage is no Author folders

Use XCOPY /S *.ORIGINAL_* <archive folder>, then have Calibre remove the format

Use Copy to Library to copy any title that has a 'Original_*', the clean out all the OTHER FORMATS in the copy_Library

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by theducks

Cybe

Use the OS 'Search' :Filenames that contain Original_EPUB (If you only have EPUB) on the Library folder: then copy the results to an Archive. The disadvantage is no Author folders

Use XCOPY /S *.ORIGINAL_* <archive folder>, then have Calibre remove the format

Use Copy to Library to copy any title that has a 'Original_*', the clean out all the OTHER FORMATS in the copy_Library

thanks - I'd considered those, will probably use the 1st one. I did a trial run & it only took a minute or so for 600+ files - so I coudl forget about incrementals & just redo all, as needed.

I also tested with save to disc for a single title & I am pretty sure that save (original_epub) to disc does NOT update metadata, unlike with save (epub) to disc. That seems inconsistent , but it suits me.

What I've yet to puzzle out is the best way of adding any original_epub file(s) back Into calibre library, into the correct folders within the "black box" structure, and in such a way that calibre knows that they are back again. I suppose the answer be that if I'm wanting to revert to those I may was well delete the other formats, rename the file(s) and use add books, but I'd then lose any other colelcted metatdata for the title(s) in question

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

One could argue (but I'm not) that it should, would have thought the chances of doing irrecoverable harm with an epub editor exceeds that of a like to like conversion or polish (yes I know the editor has save as, checkpoint etc).

Yes, which is why checkpoints exist. I mean, what happens if you are editing a word document, you save your edits, then realize the next day you accidentally deleted massive chunks? I believe AutoSave only saves when you close without saving? And anyway, the autosaved content is in mysterious MSWord appdata files I am sure.
You are messed over.

Or the average text editor on linux usually saves just the last version as a backup file.

Or similar stuff.


The appropriate way to save old versions when editing a file is through File ==> Save As and save in your own versioned scheme.
Or sync with Dropbox if you have Pack Rat. Google Drive I believe always retains unlimited backups.
The point is, file storage solutions will potentially have a versioning system builtin. Usually, that is up to you however.


Kovid decided to save the results of conversion for one reason and one reason only, I am 99% positive.
So you can revert an otherwise unrevertable, automated conversion.
Automated processes need automated backup solutions.
Editors leave that to the user.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by cybmole

OK - given that I, but no one else, has a desire to hang on to original_epub files, how do I do I get them archived from calibre without any changes being made: if I use send to device/ save to disc then I assume that calibre does what it does with real formats i.e. updates the metadata as part of the send/save process.

SO how to I select & archive/backup what is there at the moment without any changes being made. do I have to manually copy the library then extract only those file types. I'd ideally want to archive only those original.xxx files that meet certain other criteria i.e. have certain tags sets.

can I select & do a bulk copy to library for only this format operation in calibre, then take that copied library away to archive via windows backup operations?

@eschwartz -
flogging the deal horse one more time, I still see an illogic in calibre doesn't care about it, and calibre doesn't want to care about it when combined with calibre insists on re-using it for conversion to any other format.
Let me walk you thouhg a scenario: If I workflow: epub into library, epub to epub convert to apply standardized extra css, edit book as need in calibre or sigil - (so far so good ) then I proceeed with delete origianal-epub ( as you + Kovid are advocaring) , so that I can now convert (current) epub to mobi for old kindle, but then find that the mobi convert is no good after all e.g. because of some unsupported feature; I then have a need to go back to the beginning and start over - but i can't m unless I kept a copy of the true origianl

Do your manual edits first. Verify they are good.

Congratulations, you now have a new, canonical copy of your work.

Now Convert EPUB ==> EPUB, and EPUB ==> MOBI..
Extra CSS is applied.
If you don't like the results, go back.

Why would you want to have one canonical copy, and one copy with extra CSS, then apply edits to the non-canonical copy, so that if you need to revert the CSS your manual edits are lost either way?

Workflow:
One canonical copy ==> Next canonical copy ==> Next canonical copy

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by cybmole

I also tested with save to disc for a single title & I am pretty sure that save (original_epub) to disc does NOT update metadata, unlike with save (epub) to disc. That seems inconsistent , but it suits me.

I guess that makes sense, there is no metadata driver for the ORIGINAL_EPUB format.

What I've yet to puzzle out is the best way of adding any original_epub file(s) back Into calibre library, into the correct folders within the "black box" structure, and in such a way that calibre knows that they are back again. I suppose the answer be that if I'm wanting to revert to those I may was well delete the other formats, rename the file(s) and use add books, but I'd then lose any other colelcted metatdata for the title(s) in question

You can drag a file onto the Book Details panel, to add it as a format, IIRC.

You could also use a custom script which extracts the {id} from the current duplicated filepath, and uses

calibredb add_format id /path/to/ebook_file

to add the format to the named book record via the command-line

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I mean, what happens if you are editing a word document, you save your edits, then realize the next day you accidentally deleted massive chunks? I believe AutoSave only saves when you close without saving? And anyway, the autosaved content is in mysterious MSWord appdata files I am sure.
You are messed over.

Word autosaves to a location the user specifies, default is %APPDATA%\Roaming\Microsoft\Word, which is just under %APPDATA%\Roaming\calibre.

Word autosaves at an interval the user specifies, default is 10 minutes can be as little as 1 minute

If you want version control embedded in Word (Excel, Powerpoint or Visio) then there are several addins available, including the one I use for Excel - Tortoise Subversion client, it plugs right into the Fluent Ribbon..

My out of town retreat has a very poor power supply - wouldn't be a month go by when we don't lose power altogether or suffer large voltage drops - in summer it's more like once a week. I don't know how many times we have turned on computers in the morning - fired up Word or Excel and recovered to within a few minutes of the outage - and we've been doing it for at least 20 years.

BR

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Word autosaves to a location the user specifies, default is %APPDATA%\Roaming\Microsoft\Word, which is just under %APPDATA%\Roaming\calibre.

Word autosaves at an interval the user specifies, default is 10 minutes can be as little as 1 minute

If you want version control embedded in Word (Excel, Powerpoint or Visio) then there are several addins available, including the one I use for Excel - Tortoise Subversion client, it plugs right into the Fluent Ribbon..

My out of town retreat has a very poor power supply - wouldn't be a month go by when we don't lose power altogether or suffer large voltage drops - in summer it's more like once a week. I don't know how many times we have turned on computers in the morning - fired up Word or Excel and recovered to within a few minutes of the outage - and we've been doing it for at least 20 years.

BR

The angle I am more interested in is how many backups are created. My google results suggested, like Libreoffice and decent text editors, and probably many other programs I don't know about, it will save a backup only.
Recovery purposes are a valid reason for backups.

Third-party versioning plugins are nice.
Perhaps someone would like to write one for calibre.

I don't really expect that to be a core feature of any editor.