potentially very good news for e-books

[Liviu_5]

Found this entry by A. Burt (remember the whole sfwa vs scribd thing) and Mr. Burt seems to actually be a big drm-free e-book lover to various people surprise Also Mr. Stross says the following in the comments:


"Also: in talks with the four major publishers I deal with, three have plans to abandon DRM within the next year, and are considering adopting pricing policies that will break with existing practice (i.e. minimum ebook price of 80% of non-discounted price of most expensive current paper edition) which should drive uptake."

Link:

http://community.livejournal.com/sfwa/43663.html

[astra]

Fingers crossed.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

"80% of non-discounted price of most expensive current paper edition" doesn't sound like much of a bargain to me. If they want to "drive uptake," they may want to look at 50% or less. (I'd go 25%.)

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

"80% of non-discounted price of most expensive current paper edition" doesn't sound like much of a bargain to me. If they want to "drive uptake," they may want to look at 50% or less. (I'd go 25%.)

That was existing practice.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by tompe

That was existing practice.

Oop... I see!

[Reini68]

This would be really good news. Maybe one day my dream comes true, that you can have an electronic copy of the paperbooks you buy. I mean after all I pay for the rights of the author and publisher already with the paper copy. Of course a small fee for the handling of the e-book sounds O.K. to me.

In this case I wouldn't even mind DRM, as long as it ensures that I can read it on any device I want to. But the downside of DRM is, that it rises costs.

[The Old Man]

eBooks are going to be a “fringe” segment of book sales until something is done about pricing. For example, I want to buy Obama’s book The Audacity of Hope.
For my Sony reader the price is $13.45.
In Lit format it’s between 12.71 and 13.45 depending on where I buy it.
Mobipocket is 14.95.
The best is Amazon Kindle at 8.97.
But, a paperback at Amazon is $8.22!

Now, convince the general public to spend $300 or more for a reading device so they can pay more for a popular book, and which they cannot move from one device to another, lend to a friend, or use to line the bottom of their bird cage.

Are the manufacturers of eBook devices smiling all the way to the bank and thinking, “These dumb suckers will buy anything if you convince them it’s the latest in technology and put enough ‘gee-wiz’ factor into it.”

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

They're the ones who clearly haven't been paying attention. Readers are far too expensive, especially given that they are not necessary just to read an e-book. And there's nothing compelling about them besides. Even if e-books cost less, I'd still need more of a reason to buy an e-book reader, considering I can read from my PDA.

So far, Sony and Amazon are making the same mistakes as every other e-book hardware seller before them, and outside of these forums, no one else even knows who those other guys are. It'll be e-books themselves that save their own market, but at this rate, the readers won't help.

[Cthulhu]

There have been comparisons, spurious or not, regarding the SONY Reader & the Kindle to the Apple iPod. I remember reading online somewhere to supposition that Apple created iTunes as a "loss leader" to sell their hardware. If this is true, how did Apple position itself so that it could tell content providers (i.e. record labels) "we're going to sell your songs, cheap."
Wonder if this was a Corleone non-refusal type offer, or was there a great deal of negociation?

More on topic, what can SONY & Amazon do to follow the example of strong hardware demand created by a plethora of content?

Steve, I think that the new generation of readers must function like a killer app for digital texts. I think that every step toward higher resolution, contrast, and colour aids in that goal.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

There have been comparisons, spurious or not, regarding the SONY Reader & the Kindle to the Apple iPod. I remember reading online somewhere to supposition that Apple created iTunes as a "loss leader" to sell their hardware. If this is true, how did Apple position itself so that it could tell content providers (i.e. record labels) "we're going to sell your songs, cheap."
Wonder if this was a Corleone non-refusal type offer, or was there a great deal of negociation?

I think that, if the supposition is true, it mattered little to the record companies, who were suddenly being offered a new outlet for their music that would net them some profit from digital files. I'm sure Apple convinced them that buying into iTunes, and its becoming successful, would cut back on perceived losses from pirated music.

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

More on topic, what can SONY & Amazon do to follow the example of strong hardware demand created by a plethora of content?

I'm honestly not sure demand is that strong, considering you don't need a dedicated reader to read content. Sure, e-ink is nice, and the devices sell out, but they're not exactly being produced by the millions, are they?

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Steve, I think that the new generation of readers must function like a killer app for digital texts. I think that every step toward higher resolution, contrast, and colour aids in that goal.

I do agree: Dedicated readers need to be something special, to justify their existence. For me, for example, B/W e-ink simply won't be enough, though it is enough for others. (In fact, if I had to buy something today, I'd pass on the dedicated readers and get a mini-laptop or UMPC. Multiple formats, wireless when needed, easy input, color screen... I'm good.)

[JSWolf]

Yes, eBook prices are out of whack in a lot of cases. If something isn't done about it, the average person won't care about eBooks and they'll tank.

[Cthulhu]

You know, I try to keep a positive attitude about all this.

There seems to be a trend in publishing these days, I don't know how big or strong, that is working to change the way books are distributed. It is the practice of members like Steve himself, and others, like Cory Doctorow, et al, are taking of distribution themselves.

Doctorow said something that I find quite prescient:
"Obscurity is more a threat than piracy ever can be." Of course, the notion of popularity would be a stronger inducement is we lived in a "Wuffie" world, but even so, a fan base and the esteem of customers is important.

I see a future for dedicated Readers. I foresee there being maybe three classes: 1. smallish, like the SONY PRS-500/505 for fiction and basic non-fiction; 2. a larger, more reference material/pictographic focused unit, somewhere around A4 or A2 even, for big texts. Something with a foldable or split screen for big illustrations, maps, diagrams, &tc; and finally 3. A full colour version of either 1. or 2., or maybe something even bigger, like a fully mutable mammoth picture frame or coffee table display, rather than a coffee table book.

Hmm...I guess that my optimism lies more with the technology, than the single application of digital text.

If someone creates a screen with colour and the same dimensions as the average comic or graphic novel, I bet we'd have our "killer app."

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

There have been comparisons, spurious or not, regarding the SONY Reader & the Kindle to the Apple iPod. I remember reading online somewhere to supposition that Apple created iTunes as a "loss leader" to sell their hardware. If this is true, how did Apple position itself so that it could tell content providers (i.e. record labels) "we're going to sell your songs, cheap."
Wonder if this was a Corleone non-refusal type offer, or was there a great deal of negociation?

Lots of negotiation.

But iTunes is not a loss leader. It's a significant source of revenue.

And there are ongoing battles with various record labels, over offering songs without DRM, and their desire for Apple to charge higher prices and give them a bigger cut. (Cue the old fable about the goose and the golden eggs...)

More on topic, what can SONY & Amazon do to follow the example of strong hardware demand created by a plethora of content?

Steve, I think that the new generation of readers must function like a killer app for digital texts. I think that every step toward higher resolution, contrast, and colour aids in that goal.

I'd call the available readers first generation, and in practice an extended pilot project to determine if there is a market.

Sony and Amazon are in similar positions: they are big companies, who need big markets. They need to sell a boatload to justify doing it. Senior Management are custodians of Other People's Money, with a fiduciary responsibility to invest corporate funds where it will produce the best returns. I doubt anybody knows yet whether the market for dedicated ebook readers and content for it is big enough to be worth Sony and Amazon's while. We'll see.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

You know, I try to keep a positive attitude about all this.

There seems to be a trend in publishing these days, I don't know how big or strong, that is working to change the way books are distributed. It is the practice of members like Steve himself, and others, like Cory Doctorow, et al, are taking of distribution themselves.

Doctorow said something that I find quite prescient:
"Obscurity is more a threat than piracy ever can be." Of course, the notion of popularity would be a stronger inducement is we lived in a "Wuffie" world, but even so, a fan base and the esteem of customers is important.

Cory isn't exactly taking on distribution himself.

Cory provides free electronic versions in an assortment of formats, under a Creative Commons license. But he is also published in paper by Tor. He's making a bet that the free electronic copies will will raise his profile, and get more people to buy the paper editions. Thus far, it seems to be working: he quit his day job at the EFF a while back, and is full time freelance now.

He has no idea what the new publishing landscape will look like when the dust settles, but he's willing to experiment. He's helped by the fact that he is a techie, and can handle his own electronic distribution. He's also helped by the fact that Tor is willing to let him make his books available free in electronic form. Most publishers contract for exclusive rights to a book and would have apoplexy at that concept.

The progenitor is likely the Baen Free Library, providing full electronic copies in an assortment of formats of books in Baen's backlist. Credit Eric Flint for pushing the idea, and Jim Baen for having the good sense to listen.

Baen is promoting authors. You download and read one or more books by an author in their stable, decide you like the author's work, and Lo!, you find yourself buying the author's latest book in hardcover. (Participating authors also tend to see a gratifying pop in sales of backlist titles.) I had an email exchange with Jim a while back where he stated he didn't see pure electronic publishing as a source of profit at the time. The Free Library was promotion for the dead tree editions, pure and simple, and very successful promotion. Baen credits the Library with driving their transition from a struggling mass market PB house to a thriving hardcover publisher with a 70% sell through rate.

More recently, Baen is proving through the Webscriptions program that there is a market for pure ebooks.

I see a future for dedicated Readers. I foresee there being maybe three classes: 1. smallish, like the SONY PRS-500/505 for fiction and basic non-fiction; 2. a larger, more reference material/pictographic focused unit, somewhere around A4 or A2 even, for big texts. Something with a foldable or split screen for big illustrations, maps, diagrams, &tc; and finally 3. A full colour version of either 1. or 2., or maybe something even bigger, like a fully mutable mammoth picture frame or coffee table display, rather than a coffee table book.

Hmm...I guess that my optimism lies more with the technology, than the single application of digital text.

If someone creates a screen with colour and the same dimensions as the average comic or graphic novel, I bet we'd have our "killer app."

No, you have a platform that can host a killer app. What the killer app is is still not clear.

I'm not in the market for a dedicated reader. I use a Palm OS PDA because I need a device that can do other things besides display ebooks. I'm willing to carry a cell phone and a PDA. I'm not willing to carry a cell phone, PDA, and a dedicated ebook reader. I'd happily buy a device in a larger form factor with a larger screen if it supported color and provided the functions my PDA does as well as displaying ebooks, but supporting color knocks eInk out of contention. Color eInk is in the lab, but won't be available in devices for several years at current best guess.
______
Dennis

[Cthulhu]

Dennis:

You are bang on regarding the demands of business and the overriding responsibility of corporate captains. Am hopeful that may desires and their goals are convergent. As you said, time will tell.

Personally, I love my Reader 500. If there was a way to insert a wifi dongle, some mini-USB device to snatch texts from the library here at MobileRead or CONNECT, that would be awesome, but it would most likely lead to an even more financially strapped Old One.

Every chance I get, I sing the praises of this device. If I didn't think a friend was too prideful, I'd probably order one for him, just so he could spread the gospel and we could geek out together. Maybe the next time there's a super-amazing deal, I'll do just that.

As for iTunes, that loss leader comment wasn't an original thought. http://Many influential people think...ur_99c_belong/

At least, that was the case five years ago. If things have changed, I would like to think that it proves my point.