No difference between eink and LCD

teotjunk · 09-29-2012, 08:44 PM

What do you guys think of this study ?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22762257

teotjunk

Namekuseijin · 09-29-2012, 08:55 PM

about right on the money

I like reading under daylight conditions on my e-ink and the incredibly long battery savings e-ink allows, but that's about it. I've never felt a notch of fatigue while reading on LCD. And a display with autonomous light is a blessing for bedtime reading, as e-ink folks are finally discovering...

cromag · 09-29-2012, 09:24 PM

My JetBook Lite has an LCD (not backlit) screen and I comfortably read for hours on end -- when I have that much time to read. I have encountered some "jitter" with smaller fonts in direct sunlight, but I can't really call that a serious inconvenience. It was July, in Florida -- the sun's not that strong in NJ.

I used an LED reading light (a lot!) last year when we lost power for a week following the freak Halloween blizzard -- still no problems.

The JBL is probably not for everybody, but fear of eyestrain shouldn't hold anyone back.

AlbertaCowboy · 09-29-2012, 09:47 PM

It's been discussed many, many times. I have an iphone 4S. One of the best displays ever made I'm told. I get eyestrain. I've played with the settings and colours etc etc etc. I get eyestrain.
I have a Sony PRS-650. No eyestrain. Ever.
There's a difference to me despite what the study suggests.

teotjunk · 09-29-2012, 09:49 PM

I am curious. Would the battery savings on a eink reader justify buying an eink reader ?

teotjunk

SteveEisenberg · 09-29-2012, 10:12 PM

Re the OP, I could not meaningfully comment on an abstract. However, I have access to a university library and was able to bring up the full article.

One important bit: The test was of the Sony PRS-600 vs. original iPad in normal indoor lighting only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertaCowboy

There's a difference to me despite what the study suggests.

Here's some of what they suggest:

Quote:

There was also a difference based on the device, with higher fatigue ratings for the LCD-device. However since this difference was already present at the pretest (T0) before any interaction with the reading device this effect represents a difference in baseline fatigue which persisted over time. Since it is the only measure which showed this baseline effect, this may reflect a negative subjective bias towards reading on a tablet from the beginning of the experiment. Interestingly the device × time-interaction did not approach significance suggesting that general fatigue increased in a similar manner when reading on one or the other device.

Perhaps I am being unfair to the authors by quoting a passage above that people can jump on. I have to recommend reading the whole thing.

I wonder whether there might be a difference because the iPAD is larger than the ideal size for plain text reading.

elcreative · 09-29-2012, 10:19 PM

Thanks for the additional info from SteveEisenberg... I tried to hunt down the article itself but don't have the uni library access so not possible... The abstract had insufficient detail to be useful but I find the devices used to be quite amusing considering all the complaints concerning the PRS-600 with its acknowledged poorer viewing than earlier and later eInk devices due to its resistive touchscreen. I still have a 600 but very rarely use it as I find that any extended usage is uncomfortable... just like using an LCD...

cfrizz · 09-30-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertaCowboy

It's been discussed many, many times. I have an iphone 4S. One of the best displays ever made I'm told. I get eyestrain. I've played with the settings and colours etc etc etc. I get eyestrain.
I have a Sony PRS-650. No eyestrain. Ever.
There's a difference to me despite what the study suggests.

Did you ever question to think maybe it's the difference between trying to read on a small phone rather than a machine that is around the same size as your typical paperback?

I also think that a great many people are simply in denial that their eyes maybe changing and it might be time to get some glasses. It's always better to blame a piece of technology rather than sucumb to admitting the fact of an aging body.

Quote:

Originally Posted by teotjunk

I am curious. Would the battery savings on a eink reader justify buying an eink reader ?

teotjunk

Ereaders are coming down in price, but I think it really is dependant on how much in a day you read on the devices. If you can read the same amount of time on both devices without the device dying on you then it really shouldn't matter. Pick whichever one you will find the most useful.

Asawi · 09-30-2012, 12:46 PM

Well, there are LCD:s and there are LCD:s. And there are eInk and there are eInk screens.
A bad eInk screen (linke the PR600) and a good LCD (like an iPad)-maybe not so much difference.
A great eInk screen vs a not top notch LCD -maybe a different result?

All I know is to get as good reading experience on my LCD devices (Nook Color and Samsung Tab) I have to fiddle around a lot more with settings, turn down brightness a lot and so on to not get eye strain. My eInk devices I just make sure I have a good reading light and I'm ready to read for ever. Don't care how many studies tell me I'm "wrong".

DuskyRose · 09-30-2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

Did you ever question to think maybe it's the difference between trying to read on a small phone rather than a machine that is around the same size as your typical paperback?

Not for me. I had an Iphone, have a android phone now. Have had the iPad (1) and now have the iPad (3) and a Nexus 7.

Machine size doesn't make a difference, since I can set the fonts to all the same basic size on all of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfrizz

I also think that a great many people are simply in denial that their eyes maybe changing and it might be time to get some glasses. It's always better to blame a piece of technology rather than sucumb to admitting the fact of an aging body.

I've worn glasses since I was 12, and am 50 now. It's no fun, but I keep up with my perscription and even pay extra to have computer glasses for that mid-range to make reading on my large monitors easier.

But even then, it all comes down to looking straight into a light source. Size of the screen, font size and brightness don't make a difference between them. I still get eye strain from looking straight into a light source for more than a certain period of time.

Strain I've never once gotten on an eInk machine. And I read on those for hours at a time.

Bob Butler · 09-30-2012, 01:36 PM

I spend 8-10 hours or more per day in front of an LCD monitor. I have an iPad 3 and a Kindle Touch. I use them both for reading, but if I know I am going to read for several hours in the evening I always choose the Kindle. The iPad may not CAUSE the eye strain, but if they are already tired, the Kindle is much easier on my eyes.

Serpentine · 09-30-2012, 01:39 PM

Without knowing the test conditions there's absolutely no way to know. So much depends on the environment, calibration and configuration of the lcd, while the e-ink just requires external light. Under lab conditions the lcd will be far easier to read due to low specularity, high diffuse high output lighting, while for everyday reading in a lounge or bedroom you're never going to have those conditions.

I'm also not too sure how you'd see a different result from the objective testing.

Quote:

It is not the technology itself, but rather the image quality that seems crucial for reading. Compared to the visual display units used in the previous few decades, these more recent electronic displays allow for good and comfortable reading, even for extended periods of time.

It's not the technology, it's the technology? 'Recent', does that mean IPS flavours? high pixel density? wled?. I am astounded to find that image quality is beneficial, after all this time it turns out that people with bad eyes were not just pretending that they had trouble reading. Water = wet; mind = blown.

Nexutix · 09-30-2012, 01:41 PM

My personal experience. I prefer eInk over HD resolution tabs. I have tried from friend for a day or two. But no, I get headache.

Personal Preference.

speakingtohe · 09-30-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teotjunk

I am curious. Would the battery savings on a eink reader justify buying an eink reader ?

teotjunk

Not financially IMO. It is the convenience off not having to charge as often that is the advantage of eink devices.

I live in a household with a desktop, 3 laptops, 3 tablets, a large upright freezer and many, many other electronic devices turned on most of the day/night. My power bill is usually around $45 or$1.50 a day, so I doubt charging practically anything eink or LCD costs more than a few cents.

Helen

DarkScribe · 10-01-2012, 12:50 AM

It is one report and based on several hours of reading. It flies in the face of studies that are based on long term use, and on sleep studies that note that an active display interferes with the body's circadian rhythm. In my case, my sleep patterns had a near miraculous improvement once I stopped using any device - TV, computer, tablet - for a couple of hours before sleep. As someone who had a decade of insomnia and a diagnosis of narcolepsy I was very happy to learn the cause. There are currently a huge number of studies devoted to sleep disorders among young children that point toward use of tablets, computers and phones.

Nope, I will take no notice of a single, not very well considered study that is unsupported by peer studies.

09-29-2012, 08:44 PM	#1
teotjunk Connoisseur Posts: 85 Karma: 3004 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	No difference between eink and LCD What do you guys think of this study ? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22762257 teotjunk

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09-29-2012, 08:55 PM	#2
Namekuseijin affordable chipmunk Posts: 1,290 Karma: 9863855 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brazil Device: Sony XPeria ZL, Kindle Paperwhite	about right on the money I like reading under daylight conditions on my e-ink and the incredibly long battery savings e-ink allows, but that's about it. I've never felt a notch of fatigue while reading on LCD. And a display with autonomous light is a blessing for bedtime reading, as e-ink folks are finally discovering...

09-29-2012, 09:24 PM	#3
cromag Surfin the alpha waves ~~ Posts: 26,037 Karma: 459735575 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: New Jersey Device: Jetbook Lite & Mini, Nook STR, Kobo, Hanvon N516, Kindle 2, Androids	My JetBook Lite has an LCD (not backlit) screen and I comfortably read for hours on end -- when I have that much time to read. I have encountered some "jitter" with smaller fonts in direct sunlight, but I can't really call that a serious inconvenience. It was July, in Florida -- the sun's not that strong in NJ. I used an LED reading light (a lot!) last year when we lost power for a week following the freak Halloween blizzard -- still no problems. The JBL is probably not for everybody, but fear of eyestrain shouldn't hold anyone back.

09-29-2012, 09:47 PM	#4
AlbertaCowboy Guru Posts: 819 Karma: 171672846 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada Device: PRS-350, PRS-650, iPhone 6, NVIDIA Shield K1	It's been discussed many, many times. I have an iphone 4S. One of the best displays ever made I'm told. I get eyestrain. I've played with the settings and colours etc etc etc. I get eyestrain. I have a Sony PRS-650. No eyestrain. Ever. There's a difference to me despite what the study suggests.

09-29-2012, 09:49 PM	#5
teotjunk Connoisseur Posts: 85 Karma: 3004 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	I am curious. Would the battery savings on a eink reader justify buying an eink reader ? teotjunk

09-29-2012, 10:19 PM	#7
elcreative Wizard Posts: 2,888 Karma: 5875940 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: PRS505, 600, 350, 650, Nexus 7, Note III, iPad 4 etc	Thanks for the additional info from SteveEisenberg... I tried to hunt down the article itself but don't have the uni library access so not possible... The abstract had insufficient detail to be useful but I find the devices used to be quite amusing considering all the complaints concerning the PRS-600 with its acknowledged poorer viewing than earlier and later eInk devices due to its resistive touchscreen. I still have a 600 but very rarely use it as I find that any extended usage is uncomfortable... just like using an LCD...

09-30-2012, 12:46 PM	#9
Asawi Gadgetoholic Posts: 1,467 Karma: 3865860 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sweden Device: Kobo Libra2, Tolino Vision 6	Well, there are LCD:s and there are LCD:s. And there are eInk and there are eInk screens. A bad eInk screen (linke the PR600) and a good LCD (like an iPad)-maybe not so much difference. A great eInk screen vs a not top notch LCD -maybe a different result? All I know is to get as good reading experience on my LCD devices (Nook Color and Samsung Tab) I have to fiddle around a lot more with settings, turn down brightness a lot and so on to not get eye strain. My eInk devices I just make sure I have a good reading light and I'm ready to read for ever. Don't care how many studies tell me I'm "wrong".

09-30-2012, 01:36 PM	#11
Bob Butler Connoisseur Posts: 85 Karma: 11090 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle, iPhone	I spend 8-10 hours or more per day in front of an LCD monitor. I have an iPad 3 and a Kindle Touch. I use them both for reading, but if I know I am going to read for several hours in the evening I always choose the Kindle. The iPad may not CAUSE the eye strain, but if they are already tired, the Kindle is much easier on my eyes.

09-30-2012, 01:41 PM	#13
Nexutix Reading and reading Posts: 582 Karma: 8250144 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Infibeam Pi, iPod Touch 4G, iPad Air 2, iPad mini 2, Oneplus One	My personal experience. I prefer eInk over HD resolution tabs. I have tried from friend for a day or two. But no, I get headache. Personal Preference.

10-01-2012, 12:50 AM	#15
DarkScribe Apprentice Curmudgeon. Posts: 427 Karma: 3286968 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Runaway Bay, QLD, , Australia Device: Kindle DX Graphite, Touch, Paperwhite, Sony, and Nook.	It is one report and based on several hours of reading. It flies in the face of studies that are based on long term use, and on sleep studies that note that an active display interferes with the body's circadian rhythm. In my case, my sleep patterns had a near miraculous improvement once I stopped using any device - TV, computer, tablet - for a couple of hours before sleep. As someone who had a decade of insomnia and a diagnosis of narcolepsy I was very happy to learn the cause. There are currently a huge number of studies devoted to sleep disorders among young children that point toward use of tablets, computers and phones. Nope, I will take no notice of a single, not very well considered study that is unsupported by peer studies.

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