Why lump SF and Fantasy together

[ebusinesstutor]

Why are science fiction and fantasy so often lumped together? Is it merely because they are both so imaginative?

I admit I do like both SF and Fantasy, but I see them as very different genres other than a few crossovers.

But they keep getting lumped together.

Worse yet, some of the paranormal stuff is starting to get labelled as SF or fantasy and I really don't want to see that stuff in there!

Anyone else notice this? How do you feel about it?

[soundwaves]

I see them as very different genres, too, and sometimes I wonder why SF & fantasy are lumped together. (I, too, don't like seeing paranormal in there with them! :P) I think that it's because SF fans & fantasy fans tend to cross-over a lot, and yes, because they're both such imaginative genres. The both create their own worlds.

[charlesatan]

Because at the heart of it, both SF and Fantasy are about what people tend to regard as unrealistic (although arguably all Fiction is unrealistic). My favorite quote is from Philip K. Dick on the difference:

"Now to separate science fiction from fantasy. This is impossible to do, and a moment's thought will show why. Take psionics; take mutants such as we find in Ted Sturgeon's wonderful 'More Than Human'. If the reader believes that such mutants could exist, then he will view Sturgeon's novel as science fiction. If, however, he beleives that such mutants are, like wizards and dragons, not possible, nor will ever be possible, then he is reading a fantasy novel. Fantasy involves that which general opinion regards as impossible; science fiction involves that which general opinion regards as possible under the right circumstances. This is in essence a judgement-call, since what is possible and what is not possible is not objectively known but is, rather, a subjective belief on the part of the author and of the reader."

There is also the set of fictional tropes that they share. And let's not even get into the debate whether titles like Star Wars, Star Trek, Warhammer 40k, Dune, the Dying Earth, is really science fiction or fantasy...

I'm not a snob, so I'm perfectly fine with paranormal "stuff" being placed in the fantasy section.

[fjtorres]

As far as I know, the reason is historical; way back in the day fiction was either mundane, set in the "real world", or "fantastical", which was SF or Fantasy. More, Fantasy didn't bloom as a separate commercial genre until the 70's; most SF imprints mixed fantasy in without much concern.

Today the issue is the opposite; instead of SF and Fantasy being ghetto-ized, their more common tropes and themes are routinely appropriated in "watered down" or "bastardized" form for other "Genres". (Romance, youth, Young Adult, mystery, military action, etc).
Shouldn't matter: the classifications are fuzzy to start with and they mostly exist for marketting purposes anyway.

Still, it does matter to many.
(Me, I'm very mildly peeved at perfectly fine SF tropes and stories getting dumped into "paranormal", which I grew up associating with ghosts, monsters, and crackpot theories ala Von Daniken. )

[JeremyR]

Because both genres pretty much started together in the old pulps. There are exceptions, but there wasn't a whole lot of either.

Beyond that, most science fiction isn't so much science, but fantasy in space. Even today there is very little science fiction based on real science.

[BenG]

And many authors wrote both and the fantasy was often given a cursory scientific explanation. Much of the science fiction featured esp or other "Psi" abilities. Take Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series or Andre Norton's Witch World books. They're SF but read like fantasy much of the time.

There are books that are definitely one or the other but the boundary between the two is vague. Fantasy didn't really evolve as a separate genre until the 70s.

[Andrew H.]

As others have said, there is a lot of overlap in the genres compared to other genres: they take place in another world (in one sense or another) where different rules apply. And, most importantly for bookstores, a lot of people read both.

(And I don't think it's quite accurate to say that they are "lumped" together: they may be shelved together or advertised together, but they are still distinct and - with a few edge cases - people can pretty easily identify what is what).

Mysteries and Thrillers are often put together for the same reasons, even though there aren't many similarities between Miss Marple and Jason Bourne.

[Elfwreck]

What fjtorres said. Fiction used to be "real-world-esque," including present-day works and historicals, and "not-real-world," including what eventually evolved into science fiction, fantasy, and paranormal horror. (Non-paranormal horror eventually evolved into the thriller/suspense genre, cf. Silence of the Lambs.) There never were sharp lines between them.

It's easy to say "Tolkein is fantasy; Heinlein is science fiction; Lovecraft is horror." It's harder to decide where to put some of Harlan Ellison's works, or McCaffrey's... "psychic teleporting dragons" is obviously fantasy; "lost colony planet" is science fiction; "flesh-eating menace falling from the sky" is easily horror.

Today, there are people who separate them by tone and style, and people who separate them by story elements.

For the most part, I'm happy for them all to be lumped together, as long as I can tell "complex heavy worldbuilding with Deep Thoughts throughout" from "fun adventurous romp" from "creepy story with insidious elements that give me nightmares." (Or "romantic story with lots of sex." The erotica genre has crossovers into all three groups.) I don't care how they're officially categorized; I care what I'm in the mood to read, and that's rarely based on whether or not there are dragons.

[Mujokan]

Yeah, it was kind of the same thing back at the start. Robert E. Howard (Conan) and H.P. Lovecraft (Cthulhu) were good friends. Edmond Hamilton, winner of the first Jules Verne prize, was another member of this circle. In the Twenties and Thirties, they would publish in magazines like "Weird Tales" and "Wonder Stories". Both sci-fi and fantasy were part of the pulp magazine explosion at that time. Basically they are all "tales of the bizarre".

[GlenBarrington]

An effort to physically separate the unwashed from those with a more refined, more intellectual mindset. It allowed both sides to pretend the other did not exist.

[kennyc]

and horror....

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kennyc

and horror....

I'd categorise "horror" as something entirely different. The key point of both SF and Fantasy is that neither describes the real world. I wouldn't put horror into the same category as that. Of course you have authors like Lovecraft, who I suppose some might classify as "horror", but I'd put him squarely into the "Fantasy" box, personally.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'd categorise "horror" as something entirely different. The key point of both SF and Fantasy is that neither describes the real world. I wouldn't put horror into the same category as that. Of course you have authors like Lovecraft, who I suppose some might classify as "horror", but I'd put him squarely into the "Fantasy" box, personally.

Oh, I don't know, a lot of horror can be classed under Fantasy (Anything with Zombies etc) / SF (Who Goes There)

[jbcohen]

Correct me if I am wrong but I have been told that the difference between sci-fi and fantasy is that sci-fi deals with environments that are possible and might one day come to pass where as fantasy deals with the realm of things that can not ocurr. Hence the two are really quite similar and vampire romance tends to get thrown in with romance and fantasy (becuase vampires are not real).

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Oh, I don't know, a lot of horror can be classed under Fantasy (Anything with Zombies etc) / SF (Who Goes There)

Certainly there's fantasy horror, and SF horror, I agree. But there's also a lot of "real world" horror, and it's that latter type that I don't personally think can be lumped in the SF/Fantasy category.